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Posted on 2/1/16 at 10:54 am to Bmath
The problem with this study is that they are viewing this rail program in a vacuum. They are looking a what is without vision for what could be. Yes, the infrastructure to support this project does not exist. Yes, the population bases are too spread out, but, this is just one piece.
In New Orleans, the streetcar lines are expanding to reach more customers. There are even rumors of a line that will run all the way to MSY. This infrastructure which doesn't exist now, but could a decade from now makes this program make sense.
In Baton Rouge, there are 2 streetcar lines being discussed and more being imagined. The Nicholson line is practically a done deal. The mid city one is being designed which will connect the train station with downtown, mid city, and the nicholson streetcar. There are ideas floating around of more streetcar lines that would bring passengers to BTR, the Mall of Louisiana, the hospital complexes and more.
There is also the ideas that the br to nola line would just be the first part of a growing network or lines running along the gulf that would eventially stretch from Jacksonville to San Antonio, and maybe even down to Miami.
Yes, this segment by itself will not turn a profit, but it could be the start of a much larger network that will prove to be an invaluable asset to South Louisiana and the U.S. as a whole.
In New Orleans, the streetcar lines are expanding to reach more customers. There are even rumors of a line that will run all the way to MSY. This infrastructure which doesn't exist now, but could a decade from now makes this program make sense.
In Baton Rouge, there are 2 streetcar lines being discussed and more being imagined. The Nicholson line is practically a done deal. The mid city one is being designed which will connect the train station with downtown, mid city, and the nicholson streetcar. There are ideas floating around of more streetcar lines that would bring passengers to BTR, the Mall of Louisiana, the hospital complexes and more.
There is also the ideas that the br to nola line would just be the first part of a growing network or lines running along the gulf that would eventially stretch from Jacksonville to San Antonio, and maybe even down to Miami.
Yes, this segment by itself will not turn a profit, but it could be the start of a much larger network that will prove to be an invaluable asset to South Louisiana and the U.S. as a whole.
Posted on 2/1/16 at 10:56 am to doubleb
What about a superfast ferry?
Posted on 2/1/16 at 10:56 am to doubleb
Remember how bad crime was last time New Orleans people came to Baton Rouge?
Posted on 2/1/16 at 10:58 am to kingbob
None of it will turn a profit.
The fascination and romanticism of trains is baffling to me.
Why would I spend upwards of 20 to 30 minutes getting to the NO train station heading east from uptown, when I could just begin heading west to Baton Rouge from the start? And, at whatever time I choose.
It's like these simple conveniences of automobile travel are just summarily dismissed without much thought.
Trains simply aren't that great, no matter if I want them to or not.
The fascination and romanticism of trains is baffling to me.
Why would I spend upwards of 20 to 30 minutes getting to the NO train station heading east from uptown, when I could just begin heading west to Baton Rouge from the start? And, at whatever time I choose.
It's like these simple conveniences of automobile travel are just summarily dismissed without much thought.
Trains simply aren't that great, no matter if I want them to or not.
This post was edited on 2/1/16 at 11:00 am
Posted on 2/1/16 at 10:59 am to kingbob
quote:
Yes, the infrastructure to support this project does not exist. Yes, the population bases are too spread out, but, this is just one piece.
Rail is never going to make sense when your population density is 311/square mile. It costs way too much to build to justify it at that density. The New Orleans metro area is over 3700 square miles. It's just too big to have any rail options that would ever be financially viable. There is no benefit over using your personal vehicle here.
For comparison, NYC has a density of almost 28000/square mile and an area of 470 square miles.
Posted on 2/1/16 at 11:01 am to kingbob
That's all well and good. I just think local transportation needs to be addressed first before connecting cities.
It's awesome to visit places like Boston or DC where you can pop on and off a train to get around. Many people don't even own cars there.
It's awesome to visit places like Boston or DC where you can pop on and off a train to get around. Many people don't even own cars there.
Posted on 2/1/16 at 11:06 am to The Boat
This particular scenario has nothing to do with race, it's about convenience and affordability.
you love using this argument, for whatever reason, but why would one who can afford a vehicle, and a place to park it, rely on public transportation in the South? The only city where you could potentially make this argument is in Atlanta, and MARTA was "okay" when first introduced, but it sucks now.
you love using this argument, for whatever reason, but why would one who can afford a vehicle, and a place to park it, rely on public transportation in the South? The only city where you could potentially make this argument is in Atlanta, and MARTA was "okay" when first introduced, but it sucks now.
Posted on 2/1/16 at 11:14 am to Bmath
quote:
Trains like these only really work when they connect areas that are walking friendly, or if each city has an efficient public transportation system. The guy is right about the convenience of your own vehicle. I wouldn't want to take a train down to NO, only to have to pay for cabs everywhere.
Check out what LEO Express did in the Czech Republic. They partnered with Uber and now Uber and Uber bus bring ppl to the train station and transport them around the cities. LEO Express operates on freight rail lines, and does it at half the price of the government trains and 3 times as nice. They wanted to come to the US last year, but Amtrak got the FRA to tell them to take a hike.
That is the problem with rail in this country the FRA and Amtrak. Amtrak is the only entity that can operate on freight rail wherever it wants so it holds commuter rail hostage. It uses labor laws from the early part of the 20th century to justify paying its employees an aveage of $41/hr, and it is a government agency that just doesn't give a shite. If a commuter rail decides to use a different operator than Amtrak they have to prove to the FRA that they can survive a head on collision with a freght train, have enough insurance to cover the costs of a head on colllision with a freight train, and then the FRA just meddles and makes them do paperwork out of their arse. In addition to that the commuter rail then has to pay trackage rights to the freight rail. All of this makes it too expensive for private rai companies and that is why you only see Amtrak, public entities like states, or pubic-private partnerships operating.
If the USA would reform or abolish the FRA and Amtrak, private rail would take off like a bottle rocket. However one side of the isle is too ignorant to believe that a US government agency would ever try to prevent a private company from competing with a government monopoly, and the other side is too dependent on car and oil companies $$$ to want to do it.
On ipad it clears my post when I change to look up the links, but I'll edit to add then as I find them.
How the FRA is regulating private rail out of existence.
LEO Express
Deregulatin saved freight rail
Private passenger rail operators challenging the status quo
Passenger numbers doubled in the 20 years after privatization in the UK
So the main reason that rail doesn't work in this country is because the US government won't let it. All the other stuff yall mentioned are petty problems that private rail companies in eastern europe and the UK have already solved. Deregulate passenger rail and give freight companies the liabaility protection so that we can have an open access system and it would work.
As far as the BR-NOLA train idea goes. The high speed (110mph) train idea is already dead. The studies showed that a commuter rail line could do the same at half the price. Jindal let the idea go forward, but left it up to the citizens of the communities served to find a way to pay for it, and it would not use state tax money. If the local communities want to pay for it with local sales taxes or other local revenue means then let them vote on it. If the vote passes then I support it, but if JBE wants to use state tax money or make it a state thing then I do not support it. I also oppose the idea of a high speed train because it would cost an extra $200million to build the bridges and upgrade the track, and it would only be able to operate above 80mph for 5 miles along the route. The only major track work needed for a commuter train is a new Bonnet Carre Spillway bridge and upgraded crossings.
This post was edited on 2/1/16 at 11:49 am
Posted on 2/1/16 at 11:15 am to RummelTiger
anyone that supports this train shite is a retard. its that simple.
Posted on 2/1/16 at 11:15 am to kingbob
quote:
The problem with this study is that they are viewing this rail program in a vacuum. They are looking a what is without vision for what could be. Yes, the infrastructure to support this project does not exist. Yes, the population bases are too spread out, but, this is just one piece.
And all the visionaries are dreamers who believe that these projects are viable because they fulfill their dreams and reality is they aren't good, sound ideas.
quote:
In New Orleans, the streetcar lines are expanding to reach more customers. There are even rumors of a line that will run all the way to MSY. This infrastructure which doesn't exist now, but could a decade from now makes this program make sense. In Baton Rouge, there are 2 streetcar lines being discussed and more being imagined. The Nicholson line is practically a done deal. The mid city one is being designed which will connect the train station with downtown, mid city, and the nicholson streetcar. There are ideas floating around of more streetcar lines that would bring passengers to BTR, the Mall of Louisiana, the hospital complexes and more. There is also the ideas that the br to nola line would just be the first part of a growing network or lines running along the gulf that would eventially stretch from Jacksonville to San Antonio, and maybe even down to Miami. Yes, this segment by itself will not turn a profit, but it could be the start of a much larger network that will prove to be an invaluable asset to South Louisiana and the U.S. as a whole.
And what would the cost be in today's dollars? How long would it take to plan, design, and build all of that? And which do you work for? A planner, designer or a construction company?
Posted on 2/1/16 at 11:15 am to doubleb
quote:
Put up your 44 dollars per trip and hop aboard, oh wait you want me to put up money so you can ride for 13 bucks a trip!!!!!
You guys are something else.
I put up tons of money for interstates, bridges, roads that I will never use. Why are interstates better than trains when it comes to financing with dollars not collected by those who use them?
Posted on 2/1/16 at 11:16 am to fightin tigers
quote:
I put up tons of money for interstates, bridges, roads that I will never use. Why are interstates better than trains when it comes to financing with dollars not collected by those who use them?
So your answer is why not waste more? Nothing could go wrong there
This post was edited on 2/1/16 at 11:19 am
Posted on 2/1/16 at 11:16 am to ThatMakesSense
quote:
What's the mileages between some cities in the Northeast? Philly to DC? DC to NYC? NYC to Baltimore?
JUST
:lol:Posted on 2/1/16 at 11:20 am to LNCHBOX
quote:
So you're answer is why not waste more? Nothing could go wrong there
I don't hear anyone screaming for a higher gas tax. Trains are just another form of transportation that taxpayers bail out.
Posted on 2/1/16 at 11:25 am to doubleb
quote:
boondoggle.
These light rail projects are 100% graft, corruption, crony capitalism and wastefully expensive - both in construction AND operation. It is literally cheaper to give every light rail rider a Toyota Prius, than to build a light rail line.
Posted on 2/1/16 at 11:32 am to fightin tigers
quote:
I put up tons of money for interstates, bridges, roads that I will never use. Why are interstates better than trains when it comes to financing with dollars not collected by those who use them?
So do I, and I do it knowing that interstates, bridges, and tax supported highways all work to make the country a better place.
Now not every road is vital, nor is every bridge vital. The same thing applies to trains.
A train between BR and NO reducing traffic on I-10 2% isn't vital. It isn't a priority either not when we have so many other traffic issues that affect thousand more people.
I don't go to school, I don't use public libraries, and I don't frequent the park system here in BR; however, I pay taxes to them and I realize they are vital to our community.
However, that doesn't mean I can't oppose a library or a park because I believe it isn't essential.
The same thing applies to the train to and from NO to BR. It's something that we don't need and certainly can't afford.
Posted on 2/1/16 at 11:45 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
These light rail projects are 100% graft, corruption, crony capitalism and wastefully expensive - both in construction AND operation. It is literally cheaper to give every light rail rider a Toyota Prius, than to build a light rail line.
They are in the beginning stages of constructing a $2 billion speed train from Miami to Orlando. They have been given land grants and bond money. It won't last 3 years before it "goes under" and all those mofos who are getting paid just walk away from it. It's a damn shame
Posted on 2/1/16 at 11:50 am to doubleb
I agree, we are so far along the path to automobile dependency that there is really no turning back.
We will continue to throw money at loops and expansions when the solution is completely different.
We will continue to throw money at loops and expansions when the solution is completely different.
Posted on 2/1/16 at 11:56 am to fightin tigers
quote:
We will continue to throw money at loops and expansions when the solution is completely different.
Wrong, we (the Feds) are throwing billions at rail. Highways aren't getting the "love".
They'll throw a few hundred million at a rail line between BR and NO so 2% of the people currently travelling on I-10 can use it. Yea, that's the ticket, right????
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