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Started By
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re: NASA decision watch: abandon Starliner, use SpaceX in Feb
Posted on 8/24/24 at 3:41 pm to LSUFanHouston
Posted on 8/24/24 at 3:41 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
This is a fixed price contract not a cost plus contract. Then and SpaceX signed identical contracts.
Pretty sure Boeings cost was significantly higher than SpaceX.
1
Posted on 8/24/24 at 3:52 pm to IT_Dawg
Autopilot is going to take 'er back to earth to land in the desert of New Mexico.
Film in February
Film in February
Posted on 8/24/24 at 4:15 pm to Psych23
quote:
Pretty sure Boeings cost was significantly higher than SpaceX.
Yes they have spent a lot more hence their losses.
But they were paid the same.
Posted on 8/24/24 at 4:16 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
fixed price contract
Change orders.
quote:
Boeing has lost over $1.5B
Not sure I believe that. (Not you, the source)
Posted on 8/24/24 at 4:25 pm to LSUFanHouston
quote:
But they were paid the same.
Don’t think that’s correct. According to Wiki, Boeing’s contract was worth “up to $4.2 billion” while SpaceX’s contract was worth “up to $2.6 billion.” There’s also a citation from NASA saying the cost per seat was $55 million from SpaceX vs. $90 million from Boeing.
Now.. you may still be right about it being a fixed price contract. But from everything I’ve seen, the SpaceX contract was considerably less.
Posted on 8/24/24 at 4:28 pm to IT_Dawg
Title is misleading. They are going to return it to earth unmanned and drop it in White Sands, study and fix it. And they said they will use Starliner in the future when it is ship shape. Sometimes there are failures. But you can’t give up.
Posted on 8/24/24 at 4:34 pm to IT_Dawg
WWE. So scripted.
Posted on 8/24/24 at 4:35 pm to aTmTexas Dillo
quote:
And they said they will use Starliner in the future when it is ship shape. Sometimes there are failures. But you can’t give up.
They may use it for cargo in the future. But by the time it gets approved for human spaceflight again the ISS will be close to retirement.
Posted on 8/24/24 at 4:41 pm to lostinbr
quote:
Are we talking about rockets in general or crew vehicles?
Crew vehicles, and “a ton”was an over exaggeration and the wrong word… believe they crashed/exploded two Dragon2s as part of design/testing before their first manned mission
As stated before by the 3 tests and now this, Boeing hasn’t lost a Starliner.
But that’s an example of Musk vs the rest. He will take risks and blow shite up not to delay things years upon years like Starliner.
Dont get me wrong, I’m not a Boeing fan and think Musk has done more for space travel than anyone, but them losing the capsule wouldn’t be the end of Boeings space division, losing a crew would though.
Posted on 8/24/24 at 4:50 pm to lostinbr
Ok, I found this.
LINK
So fixed price but different prices.
Even more embarrassing for Boeing. Paid a lot more and still years behind and can’t get it right.
LINK
quote:
The companies selected to provide this transportation capability and the maximum potential value of their FAR-based firm fixed-price contracts are: — The Boeing Company, Houston, $4.2 billion — Space Exploration Technologies Corp., Hawthorne, California, $2.6 billion
So fixed price but different prices.
Even more embarrassing for Boeing. Paid a lot more and still years behind and can’t get it right.
Posted on 8/24/24 at 4:52 pm to N2cars
LINK
quote:
Boeing said it was taking an additional $125 million charge on Starliner, citing delays in completing the ongoing Crew Flight Test (CFT) mission. Boeing has taken about $1.6 billion in charges on Starliner throughout the program, mostly since a flawed initial uncrewed test flight in late 2019. The company took a $288 million loss on Starliner in 2023, including $257 million in the second quarter of last year after the company delayed the CFT mission to 2024.
Posted on 8/24/24 at 5:00 pm to LSUFanHouston
Thanks. 
I read the article; FFP is killing them in a lot of areas.
I read the article; FFP is killing them in a lot of areas.
Posted on 8/24/24 at 5:02 pm to Lsut81
quote:
Crew vehicles, and “a ton”was an over exaggeration and the wrong word… believe they crashed/exploded two Dragon2s as part of design/testing before their first manned mission
They lost one prototype during static fire testing of the abort thrusters. But it wasn’t during an actual launch; every Dragon 2 launch has been successful.
Posted on 8/24/24 at 5:05 pm to aTmTexas Dillo
quote:
They are going to return it to earth unmanned and drop it in White Sands, study and fix it. And they said they will use Starliner in the future when it is ship shape. Sometimes there are failures. But you can’t give up.
The major issues they are having are in the trunk of the vehicle. The trunk is detached and burns up in the atmosphere and is destroyed. That is one of the reasons they have waited so long because they know they can't do any test later. Most likely the would have to a redesign that would 1 would take them over a year to redesign and 2 require another test flight.
They do not have enough vehicles to do another test flight as they buy them from ULA and the remaining rocket boosters are spoken for.
This will be the end of the starliner program unless the ISS remains longer without being decommissioned
Posted on 8/24/24 at 5:20 pm to Dr.Funke
quote:
This will be the end of the starliner program unless the ISS remains longer without being decommissioned
If that happens, I wonder what it will mean financially for Boeing. I believe their Starliner contract included 6 operational launches, some of which have probably already been reallocated to SpaceX.
I’d be curious to see how the milestones are laid out in the contract. It’s possible Boeing has another big loss waiting to be revealed if/when some or all of their operational missions are cancelled.
Posted on 8/24/24 at 5:42 pm to lostinbr
quote:
If that happens, I wonder what it will mean financially for Boeing. I believe their Starliner contract included 6 operational launches, some of which have probably already been reallocated to SpaceX.
I’d be curious to see how the milestones are laid out in the contract. It’s possible Boeing has another big loss waiting to be revealed if/when some or all of their operational missions are cancelled.
it will be a major loss for them. there are rumors that nasa would hire them to deliver cargo (not humans) at a heavily inflated cost so they can try and recover some financially. So screw the taxpayer I guess.
Posted on 8/24/24 at 5:50 pm to GREENHEAD22
quote:
Are these two Boeing employees or NASA astronauts? Talk about being pissed. 8 day mission turns into 8 month.
Only a handful on NASA Astronauts have spent that many consecutive days in space. I can find only six Americans that have spent more than six consecutive months in space.
It’s one thing to train your mind and body for a week in space. It’s a completely different selection and training process for months and months of zero gravity in a confined space.
Posted on 8/24/24 at 5:58 pm to Dr.Funke
quote:
This will be the end of the starliner program unless the ISS remains longer without being decommissioned
I have faith in our government overlords. If Starliner returns to Earth intact, NASA will certify it for human spaceflight. Too many kickbacks and government contracts on the line to let Boeing fail.
Posted on 8/24/24 at 6:03 pm to N2cars
quote:
read the article; FFP is killing them in a lot of areas.
Shoddy QC and need for rework will tend to do that
Posted on 8/24/24 at 6:05 pm to LSUFanHouston
And bloated managnent, DEI hires, and letting HR and Accounting make critical business decisions.
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