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Maybe this thing is almost over - Oxford theory UPDATED OP showing more evidence
Posted on 3/24/20 at 10:08 pm
Posted on 3/24/20 at 10:08 pm
Half of us have already defeated the virus?
From a Wall Street Journal article. (Paywall so no link)
Very incisive article. Just one criticism:
The journalist notes, “First, the test used to identify cases doesn’t catch people who were infected and recovered“, when discussing the number of cases in the general population, but fails to apply that logic when extrapolating infection rates based on Wuhan evacuees, an Italian village and NBA players. He says that x percent of villagers tested positive, ergo x percent of the general population probably had it. Then he uses that to calculate a low morbidity rate. But it’s lower still, because he didn’t account for folks who tested negative because they had already recovered.
This means the 10% of the US population he surmises might have had the virus would be far higher. Starting to sound like the Oxford study.
From a Wall Street Journal article. (Paywall so no link)
quote:
Population samples from China, Italy, Iceland and the U.S. provide relevant evidence. On or around Jan. 31, countries sent planes to evacuate citizens from Wuhan, China. When those planes landed, the passengers were tested for Covid-19 and quarantined. After 14 days, the percentage who tested positive was 0.9%. If this was the prevalence in the greater Wuhan area on Jan. 31, then, with a population of about 20 million, greater Wuhan had 178,000 infections, about 30-fold more than the number of reported cases. The fatality rate, then, would be at least 10-fold lower than estimates based on reported cases. Next, the northeastern Italian town of Vò, near the provincial capital of Padua. On March 6, all 3,300 people of Vò were tested, and 90 were positive, a prevalence of 2.7%. Applying that prevalence to the whole province (population 955,000), which had 198 reported cases, suggests there were actually 26,000 infections at that time. That’s more than 130-fold the number of actual reported cases. Since Italy’s case fatality rate of 8% is estimated using the confirmed cases, the real fatality rate could in fact be closer to 0.06%. In Iceland, deCode Genetics is working with the government to perform widespread testing. In a sample of nearly 2,000 entirely asymptomatic people, researchers estimated disease https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-the-coronavirus-as-deadly-as-they-say-11585088464?mod=trending_now_2 2/4 3/25/2020 Is the Coronavirus as Deadly as They Say? - WSJ prevalence of just over 1%. Iceland’s first case was reported on Feb. 28, weeks behind the U.S. It’s plausible that the proportion of the U.S. population that has been infected is double, triple or even 10 times as high as the estimates from Iceland. That also implies a dramatically lower fatality rate. The best (albeit very weak) evidence in the U.S. comes from the National Basketball Association. Between March 11 and 19, a substantial number of NBA players and teams received testing. By March 19, 10 out of 450 rostered players were positive. Since not everyone was tested, that represents a lower bound on the prevalence of 2.2%. The NBA isn’t a representative population, and contact among players might have facilitated transmission. But if we extend that lower-bound assumption to cities with NBA teams (population 45 million), we get at least 990,000 infections in the U.S. The number of cases reported on March 19 in the U.S. was 13,677, more than 72-fold lower. These numbers imply a fatality rate from Covid-19 orders of magnitude smaller than it appears. How can we reconcile these estimates with the epidemiological models? First, the test used to identify cases doesn’t catch people who were infected and recovered. Second, testing rates were woefully low for a long time and typically reserved for the severely ill. Together, these facts imply that the confirmed cases are likely orders of magnitude less than the true number of infections. Epidemiological modelers haven’t adequately adapted their estimates to account for these factors. The epidemic started in China sometime in November or December. The first confirmed U.S. cases included a person who traveled from Wuhan on Jan. 15, and it is likely that the virus entered before that: Tens of thousands of people traveled from Wuhan to the U.S. in December. Existing evidence suggests that the virus is highly transmissible and that the number of infections doubles roughly every three days. An epidemic seed on Jan. 1 implies that by March 9 about six million people in the U.S. would have been infected. As of March 23, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, there were 499 Covid-19 deaths in the U.S. If our surmise of six million cases is accurate, that’s a mortality rate of 0.01%, assuming a two week lag between infection and death. This is one-tenth of the flu mortality rate of 0.1%. Such a low death rate would be cause for optimism. This does not make Covid-19 a nonissue. The daily reports from Italy and across the U.S. show real struggles and overwhelmed health systems. But a 20,000- or 40,000-death epidemic is a https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-the-coronavirus-as-deadly-as-they-say-11585088464?mod=trending_now_2 3/4 3/25/2020 Is the Coronavirus as Deadly as They Say? - WSJ far less severe problem than one that kills two million.
Very incisive article. Just one criticism:
The journalist notes, “First, the test used to identify cases doesn’t catch people who were infected and recovered“, when discussing the number of cases in the general population, but fails to apply that logic when extrapolating infection rates based on Wuhan evacuees, an Italian village and NBA players. He says that x percent of villagers tested positive, ergo x percent of the general population probably had it. Then he uses that to calculate a low morbidity rate. But it’s lower still, because he didn’t account for folks who tested negative because they had already recovered.
This means the 10% of the US population he surmises might have had the virus would be far higher. Starting to sound like the Oxford study.
This post was edited on 3/25/20 at 4:51 pm
Posted on 3/24/20 at 10:10 pm to Penrod
I am convinced that my wife had it in early February. She had the flu for essentially two weeks, but got a negative diagnosis. They gave her a flu medication that had no affect. She had a terrible fever and cough. After two weeks she finally felt better..
Posted on 3/24/20 at 10:10 pm to Penrod
My entire family was sick for a month in October. Cough that wouldn't go away. Occasional fevers. Headaches.
I believe it.
I believe it.
Posted on 3/24/20 at 10:12 pm to Penrod
Think about all the people who have had it and it did nothing to them. I’m sure there’s a shite load of people who have had the virus, never knew it and are good to go.
Posted on 3/24/20 at 10:13 pm to Penrod
One hopes.
Although I would like to see how it is accounted for the rapid ramp up on impact of health care systems.
The model would require a even more rapid spread than we think is occuring
Although I would like to see how it is accounted for the rapid ramp up on impact of health care systems.
The model would require a even more rapid spread than we think is occuring
Posted on 3/24/20 at 10:13 pm to mule74
quote:
I am convinced that my wife had it in early February. She had the flu for essentially two weeks, but got a negative diagnosis. They gave her a flu medication that had no affect. She had a terrible fever and cough. After two weeks she finally felt better..
Shortness of breath?
Posted on 3/24/20 at 10:15 pm to Penrod
I just came back from Colorado skiing March 15th. On my way back from MSY in the car I developed a dry cough, followed by the next day a fever of 101 with a persistent dry cough, no other symptoms. Took me three days to get over it. 99% certain I contracted it as eagle county is a hotbed for it. I went to get tested but was told I had to have a fever of 103 or higher. There are millions of people with mild symptoms but will never know if they had it because you can’t get tested unless you have a high fever.
Posted on 3/24/20 at 10:17 pm to Volvagia
quote:
One hopes.
Although I would like to see how it is accounted for the rapid ramp up on impact of health care systems.
The model would require a even more rapid spread than we think is occuring
Right, it doesn't really make sense to me unless someone can present some info on a spike in deaths and hospitals already being packed, like we saw from flu season a few years ago.
Like it doesn't really give me reassurance that we've just been magically ignoring it's spread as a problem until we started testing since we didnt see the same issue with deaths and the healthcare system being taxed.
If it's been here for months, why are the deaths only noticeable now? Concealed as a "bad flu season"? Until recently when it was apparent it wasn't a problem? But it sure seems to have spread slowly then at the beginning if true, when no one was being careful to prevent spread of the virus. Idk. I could buy a month earlier, but not anything before that.
This post was edited on 3/24/20 at 10:20 pm
Posted on 3/24/20 at 11:32 pm to Volvagia
quote:
Shortness of breath?
She could barely get up our steps without huffing and puffing.
Posted on 3/24/20 at 11:54 pm to Catchfalaya
quote:
There are millions of people with mild symptoms but will never know if they had it because you can’t get tested unless you have a high fever.
It certainly seems true that an extremely low percentage of people are actually being tested.
I'm in NY and have 7 different friends who are relatively sure they have it -- all the symptoms to varying degrees of severity + exposure to someone who tested positive.
Only 1 of 7 of them have been tested even though 2 others have had symptoms that are pretty serious (high fever, persistent severe cough for 3 days and one even coughing blood a couple of times).
All have been told to isolate and treat it at home.
If these people --in NY no less that's been testing more than anywhere -- haven't even been getting tested it certainly throws a huge question mark on all the testing numbers they publish every day.
Posted on 3/24/20 at 11:57 pm to Penrod
I had flu-like symptoms and thought I had pneumonia back in late January. Felt like fluid in my lungs and gurgling when I breathed for about a week and a half.
I don't remember having shortness of breath though.
I don't remember having shortness of breath though.
Posted on 3/24/20 at 11:59 pm to wm72
Something fishy is going on......
Posted on 3/24/20 at 11:59 pm to wm72
This is probably stupid but would it be scientifically possible to create an alternate test for people who previously had it and survived? Because that would be useful information
Posted on 3/25/20 at 12:00 am to Penrod
I'm pretty sure I had it early last month.
Flu symptoms for 2 days except the breathing was actually painful. Finally went into a walk-in where they swabbed me then after 20 mins or so they came back and said sorry but were out of flu tests but I wasn't showing any flu symptoms. WTF! I felt fine a day or two later but still have a lingering cough.
Convinced it was the 'rona till someone proves me wrong.
Flu symptoms for 2 days except the breathing was actually painful. Finally went into a walk-in where they swabbed me then after 20 mins or so they came back and said sorry but were out of flu tests but I wasn't showing any flu symptoms. WTF! I felt fine a day or two later but still have a lingering cough.
Convinced it was the 'rona till someone proves me wrong.
Posted on 3/25/20 at 12:09 am to Powerman
quote:
This is probably stupid but would it be scientifically possible to create an alternate test for people who previously had it and survived? Because that would be useful information
Yes, it would be.
I'm not a scientist and forget the precise details I read this morning but the upshot is that it's somewhat close to the next step the scientist behind this Oxford theory the OP mentions will take. Studying antibodies of general population to look for established immunity.
Posted on 3/25/20 at 12:12 am to Powerman
quote:
This is probably stupid but would it be scientifically possible to create an alternate test for people who previously had it and survived? Because that would be useful information
They're being developed and rolled out even now.
FDA approves rapid coronavirus test licensed by Colorado company
quote:
ENGLEWOOD, Colo. (KDVR) — Aytu BioScience, Inc. announced Monday that the company may begin the distribution of the first 100,000 COVID-19 IgG/IgM Rapid Tests throughout the country this week. The test delivers results between 2 and 10 minutes at the point of care and are for professional use only.
quote:
The COVID-19 IgG/IgM Rapid Test is used in detection of the 2019 Novel Coronavirus antibodies in human whole blood, serum or plasma. This point-of-care test has been validated in a patient clinical trial.
This post was edited on 3/25/20 at 12:14 am
Posted on 3/25/20 at 12:17 am to Powerman
Blood tests can reveal if people have antibodies related to the virus. Would indicate they had it and got over it.
I'd love to see a sample of people do this, see how many had it and the number of those without symptoms. Concurrently, I want to know if there were several pneumonia-related deaths/if the need for respirators was growing before the virus blew up here.
I'd love to see a sample of people do this, see how many had it and the number of those without symptoms. Concurrently, I want to know if there were several pneumonia-related deaths/if the need for respirators was growing before the virus blew up here.
Posted on 3/25/20 at 12:19 am to bbrownso
Well that's some encouraging news
Posted on 3/25/20 at 12:25 am to PrivatePublic
I was the sickest I've ever been in October. 3 nights in a row with a fever, and couldn't breathe. I also couldn't talk or take a breath without coughing.
While I don't remember if the cough was dry or not, I can't help but think it was this or some ugly cousin of it.
While I don't remember if the cough was dry or not, I can't help but think it was this or some ugly cousin of it.
Posted on 3/25/20 at 12:41 am to Penrod
I'm sure a lot of people had it and never knew. I got really sick back in January, I believe. Just figured it was the flu, very well could have just been the flu. But seems the symptoms I had were the same as the symptoms for this. Had a cough that I couldn't get rid of.
Even had people joking about my cough when all the corona stuff started coming out saying I've had it for weeks.
Even had people joking about my cough when all the corona stuff started coming out saying I've had it for weeks.
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