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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 3/18/25 at 3:57 pm to
Posted by Chromdome35
Fast lane, behind a slow driver
Member since Nov 2010
8182 posts
Posted on 3/18/25 at 3:57 pm to
From Grok

Q: Does China still have "ghost cities" if so, which ones

A: As of today, March 18, 2025, China’s “ghost cities”—newly built urban developments with significant underoccupation—still exist, though the phenomenon has evolved. The term “ghost city” often exaggerates the reality: many of these places aren’t fully abandoned but are underpopulated relative to their ambitious designs, with occupancy rates growing over time in some cases. This stems from China’s rapid urbanization and speculative real estate boom, where construction outpaced demand, fueled by government incentives and investment culture. While exact current data is scarce due to limited official transparency, a mix of historical evidence, recent reports, and expert insights points to ongoing examples and shifting fates.

Do Ghost Cities Still Exist?
Yes, China still has areas classified as ghost cities or underoccupied developments. Estimates from as recent as 2021 suggest around 65 million vacant homes nationwide, a figure tied to a 20% urban housing vacancy rate from the China Household Finance Survey. This doesn’t mean every “ghost city” is empty—many are partially occupied but fall short of their intended capacity. The real estate crisis, highlighted by Evergrande’s 2021 collapse and subsequent developer defaults, has left some projects stalled or sparsely populated. However, some once-notorious ghost cities have seen population growth as urbanization catches up, while others remain starkly underused.

Which Ones?
Here are key examples based on available data up to 2025, noting their current status where known:

Ordos Kangbashi (Inner Mongolia)
Background: Built in the early 2000s for 300,000–1 million residents, Kangbashi became the poster child for ghost cities after a 2009 Al Jazeera report showed it with just 30,000 people amid vast, empty infrastructure.
Status in 2025: It’s no longer a true “ghost.” By 2019, Xinhua reported 150,000 residents, and Bloomberg in 2021 noted it “stirring to life.” The government relocated top schools here, driving family migration. Today, it’s likely closer to 200,000, though still below capacity. Posts on X from 2025 suggest it’s still cited as a ghost city, but this reflects outdated perceptions rather than current reality.

Yujiapu Financial District (Tianjin)
Background: Modeled as China’s “Manhattan,” this Binhai New Area project aimed to house a financial hub but was largely empty by the mid-2010s, with skyscrapers and no tenants.
Status in 2025: Remains underpopulated. While some businesses have moved in, it’s far from its envisioned bustle. A 2021 Bloomberg report suggested slow growth, and no significant updates indicate a major turnaround by 2025. It’s a ghost city in the sense of unfulfilled ambition.

Chenggong (Kunming, Yunnan)
Background: One of Asia’s largest ghost cities by 2012, Chenggong was built for hundreds of thousands but had vast unoccupied housing and idle construction sites.
Status in 2025: It’s filling up. Government offices and universities relocated here have boosted residency, with occupancy rising steadily since the 2010s. While not fully occupied, it’s transitioning away from “ghost” status, aligning with trends of delayed urbanization.

Zhengdong New District (Zhengzhou)
Background: Planned for millions, this mega-project was labeled a ghost city in the early 2010s due to low occupancy despite grand designs.
Status in 2025: Largely a success story. Standard Chartered noted its occupancy doubled from 2012–2014, and by 2021, Bloomberg reported it thriving. Today, it’s likely a functional urban center, shedding its ghost label, though some peripheral areas may still feel sparse.

Tianducheng (Hangzhou)
Background: A Paris replica built for 10,000, complete with an Eiffel Tower, it was mostly empty in the 2010s, used more for wedding photos than living.
Status in 2025: Still a ghost city by most accounts. While some residents have trickled in, its scale and oddity keep it underpopulated. No major 2025 updates suggest a significant shift.

Caofeidian (Hebei)
Background: A $161 billion eco-city project stalled in 2014 after bank loans dried up, leaving half-built structures and few residents.
Status in 2025: Remains a ghost. Construction hasn’t resumed meaningfully, and it’s cited in 2024 Architectural Digest reports as emblematic of China’s real estate woes. Sparse occupancy persists.

Jingjin New Town (near Beijing)
Background: Built with 3,000 villas for affluent buyers, it had a 10% occupancy rate by the mid-2010s.
Status in 2025: Likely still underoccupied. No recent data shows a boom, and its luxury focus limits mass appeal amid economic slowdowns.

Broader Context
The ghost city phenomenon isn’t static. Some, like Pudong (Shanghai), once mocked as empty in the 1990s, are now thriving with 5 million residents. Others, like Forest City in Malaysia (Chinese-built), mirror this pattern with 9,000 residents against a 700,000 goal. In China, the 50+ ghost cities identified in 2014 (China Urban Construction Statistical Yearbook) have mixed fates: third- and fourth-tier cities like Changzhou overbuilt housing as manufacturing slowed, per a 2017 study, and many remain underutilized. The 2023-2024 Evergrande fallout and an aging population (projected to halve by century’s end) suggest new ghost cities could emerge from unfinished projects, while existing ones slowly populate or stagnate.

In short, China still has ghost cities—Caofeidian, Yujiapu, and Tianducheng stand out as persistent examples—though others like Ordos and Zhengdong are shedding the label. The real story is less about total abandonment and more about a mismatch of scale and timing, with some areas catching up and others left as haunting relics of overreach.
Posted by John Barron
The Mar-a-Lago Club
Member since Sep 2024
17101 posts
Posted on 3/18/25 at 4:00 pm to
quote:

 CitizenK


I guess this another Ghost City China built. China just likes to build stuff for no reason according to you.

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Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
5724 posts
Posted on 3/18/25 at 4:04 pm to
Yaroslav Trofimov
@yarotrof
Critical difference between U.S. and Russian statements: Trump mentions a Russian commitment to an “energy and infrastructure ceasefire” but the Kremlin only talks of a 30-day mutual halt on strikes against “energy infrastructure.” Means Moscow has not agreed to stop attacks against ports, bridges, and other Ukrainian infrastructure.
Posted by Chromdome35
Fast lane, behind a slow driver
Member since Nov 2010
8182 posts
Posted on 3/18/25 at 4:13 pm to
From Deepseek R1, Chinas AI

quote:

Zhengdong New District (Henan Province)
Planned Population: 5 million
Current Population: ~1.5 million (as of recent estimates)
Percentage Populated: ~30%

Details: This district in Zhengzhou was intended to become a major financial and cultural center. While it has seen some growth, it remains far below its planned capacity.

quote:

China just likes to build stuff for no reason according to you.

Yep, that's exactly what they do.
This post was edited on 3/18/25 at 4:16 pm
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
5724 posts
Posted on 3/18/25 at 4:21 pm to
Kremlin readout of phone call...

Telephone conversation with US President Donald Trump
Took place Vladimir Putin's telephone conversation with US President Donald Trump.

March 18, 202520:15

Leaders continued a detailed and frank exchange of views on the situation around Ukraine. Vladimir Putin expressed gratitude to Donald Trump for his desire to contribute to the noble goal of ending hostilities and loss of life.

Confirming principled commitment to a peaceful resolution of the conflict, President of Russia announced his readiness to work together with our American partners to conduct a thorough development of possible ways of settlement, which should be comprehensive, sustainable and long-term nature. And, of course, take into account the unconditional the need to address the root causes of the crisis, Russia's legitimate security interests.

In the context of initiatives of the President of the United States on the introduction of a 30-day truce - with the Russian The parties identified a number of essential points regarding the provision of effective control over a possible ceasefire along the entire line of combat contact, the need to stop forced mobilization in Ukraine and rearmament of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. They also noted serious risks associated with the inability to negotiate with the Kiev regime, which has repeatedly sabotaged and violated the agreements reached. Attention is drawn to the barbarian crimes of a terrorist nature committed by Ukrainian militants against the civilian population of the Kursk region.

It is emphasized, that the key condition for preventing the escalation of the conflict and working towards its resolution by political and diplomatic means should be the complete cessation of foreign military assistance and the provision of intelligence information to Kyiv.

In connection with Donald Trump's recent appeal to save the lives of those surrounded in Kursk Ukrainian servicemen Vladimir Putin confirmed that the Russian the side is ready to be guided by considerations of a humanitarian nature and, in the event of surrender, guarantees the life and dignified treatment of the soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine according to Russian laws and norms of international law.

In the course of Donald Trump put forward a proposal for the parties to the conflict to mutually refuse to strike energy infrastructure facilities for 30 days. Vladimir Putin responded positively to this initiative and immediately gave the Russian military the appropriate command.

Likewise The President of Russia reacted constructively to the idea expressed by Donald Trump implementation of the well-known initiative concerning the safety of navigation in the Black Sea. It was agreed to start negotiations for additional working out the specific details of such an agreement.

Vladimir Putin informed that on March 19, between the Russian and Ukrainian sides An exchange of prisoners will be carried out - 175 for 175 people. In addition, as a goodwill will be handed over to 23 seriously wounded Ukrainian servicemen, who are being treated in Russian medical institutions.

The leaders confirmed the intention to continue efforts to achieve a bilateral settlement in Ukraine, including taking into account the above-mentioned proposals of the President United States. For this purpose, Russian and American expert groups are being created.

Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump also touched on other issues on the international agenda, including the situation in the Middle East and the Red Sea region. Will joint efforts have been made to stabilise the situation in the crisis points, establishing cooperation in nuclear non-proliferation and global security. This, in turn, will contribute to health improvement the general atmosphere of Russian-American relations. One of the positive examples is a joint vote in the UN on a resolution regarding the Ukrainian conflict.

Expressed mutual interest in normalizing bilateral relations in light of the special responsibility of Russia and the United States for ensuring security and stability in the world. In this context, a wide range of areas was considered, in which Our countries could establish cooperation. A number of ideas moving towards development in the perspective of mutually beneficial cooperation in the economy and energy were discussed.

Donald Trump supported Vladimir Putin's idea to organize hockey matches in the United States and Russia between Russian and American players playing in the NHL and KHL.

Presidents We agreed to stay in touch on all the issues raised.

LINK
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16110 posts
Posted on 3/18/25 at 4:37 pm to
quote:

You do nothing but spew Lies. You do know Twitter exists and its easy to debunk your lies..


An old friend who set up a grain trading office in Beijing has been to them, dozens per him.

You love to buy fake news
Posted by John Barron
The Mar-a-Lago Club
Member since Sep 2024
17101 posts
Posted on 3/18/25 at 4:53 pm to
quote:


Yep, that's exactly what they do.


Incorrect. "Ghost Cities" imply no one lives their when in reality...

quote:

Current Population: ~1.5 million


You think they build these Cities with a short term time frame of 10 years? These Cities are built for a long-term vision




Posted by John Barron
The Mar-a-Lago Club
Member since Sep 2024
17101 posts
Posted on 3/18/25 at 4:59 pm to
quote:

An old friend who set up a grain trading office in Beijing has been to them, dozens per him.


Holy shite right on Q At least you are consistent with the fan fiction
Posted by Coeur du Tigre
It was just outside of Barstow...
Member since Nov 2008
4601 posts
Posted on 3/18/25 at 5:00 pm to
quote:

In the context of initiatives of the President of the United States on the introduction of a 30-day truce - with the Russian The parties identified a number of essential points regarding the provision of effective control over a possible ceasefire along the entire line of combat contact, the need to stop forced mobilization in Ukraine and rearmament of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. [...]

It is emphasized, that the key condition for preventing the escalation of the conflict and working towards its resolution by political and diplomatic means should be the complete cessation of foreign military assistance and the provision of intelligence information to Kyiv.


The statement issued by the Kremlin in part above is substantively different from the statement issued by the White House. The White House statement makes no mention of these three Russian demands:

- No further Ukrainian mobilization;

- No further military assistance given to Ukraine; and

- No intelligence information given to Ukraine.

The Russian statement is the more accurate one as Trump is trying to hide his complicity in such a deal. Of course, this is not an attempt at a peace agreement but an attempt at forcing Ukraine to surrender. This has been Trump's intention since day one. His only cause for delay are the GOP Congress members that must run for election against this treason next year.

Believe it or not, that's the reality.
Posted by Chromdome35
Fast lane, behind a slow driver
Member since Nov 2010
8182 posts
Posted on 3/18/25 at 5:00 pm to
quote:

Incorrect. "Ghost Cities" imply no one lives their when in reality...



If a city is built to have a capacity of 5M people, are you arguing that it isn't a ghost city if ONE person lives there? If not, what is the occupancy threshold for when it should no longer be considered a ghost city?

Not that it matters, the rest of the world considers them ghost cities.

Posted by John Barron
The Mar-a-Lago Club
Member since Sep 2024
17101 posts
Posted on 3/18/25 at 5:02 pm to
Posted by Chromdome35
Fast lane, behind a slow driver
Member since Nov 2010
8182 posts
Posted on 3/18/25 at 5:08 pm to
According to China's AI, this is the definition of a ghost city

quote:

While there is no strict occupancy threshold that determines whether a city is no longer a ghost city, occupancy rates above 50-70%, combined with signs of economic activity and infrastructure utilization, are strong indicators that a city is shedding its "ghost city" status. The transition out of this label is often gradual and depends on a combination of population growth, economic development, and reduced vacancy rates.


Sometimes you just look stupid, this is one of those times.
This post was edited on 3/18/25 at 5:10 pm
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42751 posts
Posted on 3/18/25 at 5:15 pm to
quote:

Correcting a poster and showing that Russia has the #4 Economy in the World in terms of PPP GDP according to the IMF is not white knighting. It's called telling the truth. I am sorry you have a problem with that.


WRONG

Putting up a post that indicates Russian GDP increased 4.1% and then “correcting” a poster who correctly pointed out that Russia was ranked 11th in GDP by saying they are 4th because their GDP PPP is fourth is typical Russian propaganda. It’s BS.

To top it off you begin calling the poster names because he correctly pointed out your shell game.

Recent posts by JB indicate Ed cyhst Thd Rusdizn economy decreased ftom 4.1% to 3.8%.
GDP, GDP PPP are Apples and oranges, but Russian math indicates a 7% rate of decline.
This post was edited on 3/18/25 at 6:04 pm
Posted by John Barron
The Mar-a-Lago Club
Member since Sep 2024
17101 posts
Posted on 3/18/25 at 5:31 pm to
quote:

GDP PPP is fourth is typical Russian propaganda.


So the IMF is spreading Russia Propaganda now...


"Yes, as of recent data, Russia is ranked as the fourth-largest economy in the world by Purchasing Power Parity Gross Domestic Product (PPP GDP). This ranking reflects adjustments for the relative cost of goods and services in Russia compared to other countries, providing a measure of economic output that accounts for purchasing power rather than just nominal exchange rates. According to updated figures from institutions like the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the World Bank, Russia has surpassed Japan to claim this position, trailing only China, the United States, and India in terms of PPP GDP. This shift has been noted in reports from 2024, with Russia’s economic resilience—despite Western sanctions—contributing to its climb in the rankings."

Background on PPP GDP
PPP GDP is a measure that adjusts for price level differences across countries, using a common currency (international dollars) to reflect the actual purchasing power of domestic currencies. This method is preferred for comparing economic productivity and living standards, especially for emerging economies where exchange rates may not accurately reflect economic activity. The IMF and World Bank are key providers of such data, with updates typically released biannually, while alternative sources like WorldEconomics.com offer adjusted estimates




Posted by StormyMcMan
USA
Member since Oct 2016
4691 posts
Posted on 3/18/25 at 5:41 pm to
Looks like Russia is already targeting Ukrainian infrastructure. Guess that ceasefire lasted a few hours
Posted by John Barron
The Mar-a-Lago Club
Member since Sep 2024
17101 posts
Posted on 3/18/25 at 5:51 pm to
Posted by John Barron
The Mar-a-Lago Club
Member since Sep 2024
17101 posts
Posted on 3/18/25 at 5:55 pm to
Posted by John Barron
The Mar-a-Lago Club
Member since Sep 2024
17101 posts
Posted on 3/18/25 at 5:56 pm to
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42751 posts
Posted on 3/18/25 at 5:59 pm to
quote:

If a city is built to have a capacity of 5M people, are you arguing that it isn't a ghost city if ONE person lives there? If not, what is the occupancy threshold for when it should no longer be considered a ghost city?


He is just doing his job, defending a rival and previous enemy to the US.

Posted by John Barron
The Mar-a-Lago Club
Member since Sep 2024
17101 posts
Posted on 3/18/25 at 6:04 pm to
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