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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 11/13/24 at 11:20 am to texag7
Posted on 11/13/24 at 11:20 am to texag7
Trump expected to 'soon' appoint a Ukrainian peace envoy after promises of negotiating end to war with Russia
FoxNews
FoxNews
quote:
EXCLUSIVE: President-elect Donald Trump is expected to soon appoint a Ukrainian peace envoy to lead negotiations on ending the war with Russia, multiple sources told Fox News Digital.
quote:
"You’re going to see a very senior special envoy, someone with a lot of credibility, who will be given a task to find a resolution, to get to a peace settlement," one of the sources said.
"You’re going to see that in short order."
1
Posted on 11/13/24 at 11:29 am to GOP_Tiger
Thune as Majority Leader is a strong supporter of Ukraine.
Posted on 11/13/24 at 11:30 am to cypher
quote:
Ukraine's Security Service assassinates Russian Black Sea Fleet captain in Sevastopol – photo, video
This makes me think Israel (Mossad) is lending a hand, or advising... this is what happens to any Iranian Physicist who gets assigned to their Nuclear program...
Posted on 11/13/24 at 11:36 am to GOP_Tiger
Trump won the mandate of the people in this election, I find it hard to believe anyone will push back significantly on something Trump wants to do when he has shown himself to be someone who has made and destroyed the careers of a lot of politicians in a short amount of time.
But I don't think its abundantly clear what Trump's ultimate position will be. Probably more Pro-Ukraine than I'd like him to be, and likely less than the sunshine-pumper Ukraine flag wavers are predicting in here.
But I don't think its abundantly clear what Trump's ultimate position will be. Probably more Pro-Ukraine than I'd like him to be, and likely less than the sunshine-pumper Ukraine flag wavers are predicting in here.
This post was edited on 11/13/24 at 11:37 am
Posted on 11/13/24 at 11:51 am to WeeWee
quote:
Well its true. The Russian people have been subjugated for the past 1200 years or so. First by the Czars, then the Soviets, and now Putin. They have been trained to grumble at home but do nothing to change their situation.
A great presentation was posted here explaining this...
It actually predates the Tsars... the Russians (or the people in the areas we now define as Russia) were conquered by the Mongols, but the Mongols did not stay among them and become "Russians" themselves, as most conquerors did... they ruled from afar, and made the upper-class families of these areas their subservient local managers of the peasants/slaves. That created a division in Russian Society that set the stage for the Tsars and their attitude and behavior, and then for Lenin and Stalin despite the propaganda of "Communist equality ("some are more equal than others")," and right on up to today and the Oligarchs...
Kruschev "de-Stalinized" Russia/The USSR... which eventually gave rise to Gorbachev, a reformer and someone from outside the old guard hardliner sect/living graveyard... the Soviet Union and party control of Russia collapsed because Gorbachev would not "handle" rebellion the usual way the hardliners demanded: by gunning down everybody who stood up.
But Yeltsin came in, and pretty much instantly set up a kleptocracy with Oligarchs he favored, if a slightly more benevolent one than the current one... and that just all set the stage for Putin and his mafia to take over.
This post was edited on 11/13/24 at 11:53 am
Posted on 11/13/24 at 12:12 pm to VolSquatch
NEW STATESMAN: Why Russia is a Prisoner of Geography
Haunted by the nightmares of history, Vladimir Putin is the latest Russian leader to use violence and occupation to control the European flatlands to the west.
Before Russia’s western border is the North European Plain. This flatland stretches from France all the way to the Ural Mountains. Its narrowest point is between the Baltic Sea and the Carpathian Mountains – Poland. If an invading army is heading east from Europe, once it gets through Poland the plain widens again all along the Russian border. Conversely, an army heading west can also fan out once it is past Poland.
This in large part explains Russia’s repeated attempts to occupy Poland over the past few centuries. It represents a relatively narrow corridor into which Russia can drive its armed forces to block an enemy advance towards its own border, which, being wider, is much harder to defend. Over the past 500 years, Russia has been invaded several times from the west. The Poles came across the European Plain in 1605, followed by the Swedes in 1707, the French in 1812, and the Germans in 1914 and then again in 1941.
Russian leaders have long attempted at least to control the flatlands to their west, or even occupy them as part of the Russian empire, most recently in its formation as the USSR. Russia lacks its own warm-water ports with direct access to the oceans. Some of the Arctic ports freeze for several months each winter, and Russian ships must contend with the ice packs to the north of the Arctic coastline. The routes to the ocean lanes for the Baltic and Black Sea fleets are difficult at the best of times, and nigh on impossible in the worst.
These two preoccupations – vulnerability on land and lack of warm-water ports – came together in Ukraine in 2014. As long as a pro-Russian government held sway in Kyiv, Russia could be confident that its most important buffer zone would remain intact and guard the European Plain along with Belarus. Even a neutral Ukraine, which promised not to join the EU or Nato and would uphold the lease Russia had on the warm-water port at Sevastopol in Crimea on the Black Sea, could be tolerated. But when a pro-Western government came to power after the Kyiv uprising in 2014 the Kremlin was horrified.
...
Haunted by the nightmares of history, Vladimir Putin is the latest Russian leader to use violence and occupation to control the European flatlands to the west.
Before Russia’s western border is the North European Plain. This flatland stretches from France all the way to the Ural Mountains. Its narrowest point is between the Baltic Sea and the Carpathian Mountains – Poland. If an invading army is heading east from Europe, once it gets through Poland the plain widens again all along the Russian border. Conversely, an army heading west can also fan out once it is past Poland.
This in large part explains Russia’s repeated attempts to occupy Poland over the past few centuries. It represents a relatively narrow corridor into which Russia can drive its armed forces to block an enemy advance towards its own border, which, being wider, is much harder to defend. Over the past 500 years, Russia has been invaded several times from the west. The Poles came across the European Plain in 1605, followed by the Swedes in 1707, the French in 1812, and the Germans in 1914 and then again in 1941.
Russian leaders have long attempted at least to control the flatlands to their west, or even occupy them as part of the Russian empire, most recently in its formation as the USSR. Russia lacks its own warm-water ports with direct access to the oceans. Some of the Arctic ports freeze for several months each winter, and Russian ships must contend with the ice packs to the north of the Arctic coastline. The routes to the ocean lanes for the Baltic and Black Sea fleets are difficult at the best of times, and nigh on impossible in the worst.
These two preoccupations – vulnerability on land and lack of warm-water ports – came together in Ukraine in 2014. As long as a pro-Russian government held sway in Kyiv, Russia could be confident that its most important buffer zone would remain intact and guard the European Plain along with Belarus. Even a neutral Ukraine, which promised not to join the EU or Nato and would uphold the lease Russia had on the warm-water port at Sevastopol in Crimea on the Black Sea, could be tolerated. But when a pro-Western government came to power after the Kyiv uprising in 2014 the Kremlin was horrified.
...
This post was edited on 11/13/24 at 12:14 pm
Posted on 11/13/24 at 12:14 pm to Lee B
The European Plain, shaded in dark gray. Light gray indicates the shallow sea floor that surrounds the plain.
This post was edited on 11/13/24 at 12:18 pm
Posted on 11/13/24 at 12:16 pm to Lee B
We sit in perhaps the safest geographical position on the planet... yet people are constantly nutcases about being invaded by "fighting age men" through a friendly and subservient nation to our south.
Imagine if we were in Russia's geographical position?
Imagine if we were in Russia's geographical position?
Posted on 11/13/24 at 12:26 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
I find it hard to believe anyone will push back significantly on something Trump wants to do when he has shown himself to be someone who has made and destroyed the careers of a lot of politicians in a short amount of time.
Trump is a lame duck and his influence is about to greatly wane... he has not shown that his endorsement can sweep someone else into office (examples in states he even won: Kari Lake in Arizona and Mark Robinson in North Carolina) and "Trumpism" doesn't seem to work in running for office for anybody except Trump, himself. The trouble for Trump is that his voters are "his voters," not Republican voters... they don't like Republicans any more than they like Democrats. They were mostly people who did not participate in elections before he appeared. So without him on a ticket... their allegiance to the Republican party, or to even showing up to vote, is questionable. And that means some calculus from these frankly opportunistic career political creatures on when they can pivot and set themselves up for a coming-very-soon future when the Trump voters go back into the woodwork...
Posted on 11/13/24 at 12:27 pm to Lee B
Loading Twitter/X Embed...
If tweet fails to load, click here. Lavrov
quote:
“Proposals to freeze the conflict in Ukraine along the line of contact are essentially the same as the Minsk agreements in new packaging; worse, actually”
This post was edited on 11/13/24 at 12:28 pm
Posted on 11/13/24 at 12:33 pm to Lee B
quote:
Kari Lake in Arizona and Mark Robinson in North Carolina
Those are awful examples
quote:
"Trumpism" doesn't seem to work in running for office for anybody except Trump, himself. The trouble for Trump is that his voters are "his voters," not Republican voters... they don't like Republicans any more than they like Democrats. They were mostly people who did not participate in elections before he appeared. So without him on a ticket... their allegiance to the Republican party, or to even showing up to vote, is questionable. And that means some calculus from these frankly opportunistic career political creatures on when they can pivot and set themselves up for a coming-very-soon future when the Trump voters go back into the woodwork...
Some wishcasting in there, but I don't think a version of what you said is impossible necessarily.
Trump is positioning himself to have the most radically different presidency we've had in years. How that goes will go a long way with deciding what happens to "MAGA" in the years ahead.
I do know that in 2016 he had to get someone "less extreme" than himself as his VP, and this time he picked someone just as it not more "extreme" than he is, and he did better than in 2016. There is definitely a shift there.
Posted on 11/13/24 at 12:37 pm to Lee B
quote:
Number 1 is completely true... the people on those nightly talk shows mention it constantly... it is an easy drive across the wide,.flat Eastern European plain straight to Moscow... no geographical defenses... the
If you drive east from Poland to attack Moscow, you do not go through Ukraine unless you want to take the long way. The direct route is Minsk to Smolensk then to Moscow.
Posted on 11/13/24 at 12:39 pm to VolSquatch
Well, I read Vance as the biggest opportunist on the planet, next to Musk
Posted on 11/13/24 at 12:40 pm to VolSquatch
(no message)
Posted on 11/13/24 at 12:40 pm to Lima Whiskey
Posted on 11/13/24 at 12:42 pm to doubleb
quote:
If you drive east from Poland to attack Moscow, you do not go through Ukraine unless you want to take the long way. The direct route is Minsk to Smolensk then to Moscow.
"Direct" route is not the thing... once past Poland these's just too much open, flat area to defend... so if Russia is defending the route you just described, head south and fan out...
Posted on 11/13/24 at 12:49 pm to Lee B
I mean, Ukraine just invaded Kursk, right? With no resistance...
I don't understand how you guys - who have military experience, right? - don't see that...
Georgia "must" be controlled by Russia because Turkey cannot be trusted and an invasion could sweep up that way. This is also why Syria staying in Assad's control is such a big thing for them
Russia has always been obsessed with controlling/"reclaiming" Finland as a defensive thing...
Now, it's all ridiculous because NOBODY (except the Polish right) wants to march in and conquer Moscow...
But Russians don't think that way.
I don't understand how you guys - who have military experience, right? - don't see that...
Georgia "must" be controlled by Russia because Turkey cannot be trusted and an invasion could sweep up that way. This is also why Syria staying in Assad's control is such a big thing for them
Russia has always been obsessed with controlling/"reclaiming" Finland as a defensive thing...
Now, it's all ridiculous because NOBODY (except the Polish right) wants to march in and conquer Moscow...
But Russians don't think that way.
Posted on 11/13/24 at 12:49 pm to Lee B
The world has evolved. There aren’t any million man armies unless you consider China.
Posted on 11/13/24 at 12:57 pm to Lee B
Are we seriously talking about direct routes hundreds of miles long when we've been watching $2000 drones destroy multi-million dollar tanks for 2 years?
Posted on 11/13/24 at 1:09 pm to Lee B
quote:
Russia has always been obsessed with controlling/"reclaiming" Finland as a defensive thing...
The Russians created Finland, they gave them independence from the Swedes.
This post was edited on 11/13/24 at 1:10 pm
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