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1
Posted on 7/10/24 at 1:48 pm to GOP_Tiger
How many more hospitals need to be blown up before Joe lets Ukraine attack the missile sites being used to cause all the destruction?
Posted on 7/10/24 at 1:51 pm to GOP_Tiger
Things aren't escalating though 
Posted on 7/10/24 at 2:01 pm to doubleb
The biggest part of training has already occurred, our equipment is designed to use our tactics, not Soviet style. So modern versions are just learning new gadgets, not the tactics
Posted on 7/10/24 at 2:32 pm to bigjoe1
There's definitely something changing in allied permissions to strike inside Russia:
Loading Twitter/X Embed...
If tweet fails to load, click here.Posted on 7/10/24 at 2:37 pm to doubleb
quote:
How many more hospitals need to be blown up before Joe lets Ukraine attack the missile sites being used to cause all the destruction?
And he'll get pilloried for "escalation and flirting with nuclear armageddon to win an election," and House Reps will scream he's a madman and this is why aid must be cut off...
I think it's going to happen. This attack makes the moral case for it. The right and left are already claiming its a false flag operation to get us to accept escalation, though... youtube will have 12,000 videos purporting the "truth" from the Russian perspective 30 minutes from now.
Unfortunately, it always takes something horrible to convince 51% of the people in this country to support action... then they easily get tired of whatever sacrifice they imagine they're having to make to see it through.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 2:40 pm to CitizenK
There are literally hundreds of F16's being replaced with F35's these days.
Ukraine should be able to hire highly skilled maintenance contractors and pilots too.
Ukraine should be able to hire highly skilled maintenance contractors and pilots too.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 2:44 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
There's definitely something changing in allied permissions to strike inside Russia:
Politics is essentially a see-saw...
The European Left were traditionally pacifists and relative isolationists, if not Communist sympathizers and appeasers...
The European Right were traditionally more defense-minded and hawkish (at least in letting NATO project toughness).
Now the far right is isolationist if not outright Pro-Putin...
And even politicians on the Left who were pacifists 3 years ago are suddenly defense-minded, in response.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 2:56 pm to doubleb
quote:
quote:
American pilots and boots on the ground?
No, but American weapons and ammo for the Ukrainians.
Aren't we giving them everything we can that they can effectively use and maintain (the Germans are VERY hard on this point, which is very German... what good does giving them things they have to abandon everywhere do?) ?
Who held up those weapons and helped out Russia big time with that, again?
quote:
quote:
Making sure the freedom caucus doesn't deprive Ukraine of aid for 7 months again?
They follow Trump’s lead.
See above!!!!!
quote:
quote:
"if Ukraine wins, what will be the benefit?’" - Trump to Congressional Republicans in private...
We win a peace dividend just as Reagan did.
"Peace Sells, but Who's Buying?"
- (was it Bob Dylan or Pete Seeger who wrote that one? I forget...)
You're preaching to the choir as far as this reader goes...
you need to convince Donald Trump of all of this...
This post was edited on 7/10/24 at 3:03 pm
Posted on 7/10/24 at 3:02 pm to Auburn1968
quote:
There are literally hundreds of F16's being replaced with F35's these days.
Ukraine should be able to hire highly skilled maintenance contractors and pilots too.
I'm sure if it was that easy...
main thing being those pilots have a fair chance of being killed.
Those maintenance contractors might have even worse odds of being constant targets for missiles and swarms of drones.
I saw someone saying they should just keep the jets in Romania, Poland and Slovakia...
Okay, using the same rationale that we're using to allow Ukraine to strike only military targets in Russia as a defensive matter...
There's goes Article 5!
Posted on 7/10/24 at 3:04 pm to Lee B
quote:
you need to convince Donald Trump of all of this...
He may already know this.
The thing is does he want to be remembered as a weakling that brought on war like Neville Chamberlain, or does he want to be remembered as a stalwart against evil like Winston Churchill?
I don’t believe Trump wants to be remembered as the guy who caved to Putin and gave up Ukraine to the Russians.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 3:33 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
Them spending 2% on military IS a form of contributing when you're in an alliance.
Its set at a % to account for some countries like us being able to spend way more raw dollars.
The entire point is that if someone gets attacked the rest can help with defense.... if someone in an alliance has an underfunded military, they aren't able to help. That 2% should be looked at as paying dues.
Okay, I think they have all realized that... Canada might need a talking to...
but there's different roles.
The 3 relatively small Baltic countries (Estonia, Latvia & Lithuania) probably cannot afford the sheer number of arms and hardware themselves to take on the Russian invasion they would probably be first in line for...
But, the day after Russia rolled into Ukraine there were lines outside of enlistment offices in those countries, and just about everybody from age 14 to 90 was asking what role they could play in defense ("We don't have the luxury of assuming Russian benevolence. Some of us still wear the scars of their brutality").
And that was kind of the manipulative thing on our part in establishing NATO. Stalin would have to throw his walls of bodies through the walls of bodies of Western Europe before he got to the Atlantic Coast and the UK and in any position to directly threaten a mass invasion of the US.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 3:35 pm to doubleb
quote:
He may already know this.
The thing is does he want to be remembered as a weakling that brought on war like Neville Chamberlain, or does he want to be remembered as a stalwart against evil like Winston Churchill?
I don’t believe Trump wants to be remembered as the guy who caved to Putin and gave up Ukraine to the Russians.
This goes back to faith in him, which I could not have less of...
Again, his people say the deal he wants to make will just negotiate what parts of Ukraine Putin gets to keep. So he's giving some of it up to the Russians from the get go.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 3:38 pm to Lee B
quote:
believe Hungary violated the specs and bought Russian air defense systems
That was Turkey
Turkey’s purchase of Russian missile-defense system will be ‘paradigm shifting’ for its relations with the US
But things are a changing
US open to Türkiye rejoining F-35 program post S-400 resolution
quote:
The United States on Wednesday expressed the possibility that Türkiye could return to the F-35 joint strike fighter program if a row over the S-400 air defense system Ankara acquired from Russia is resolved.
"There's no change to our view that the F-35 program for Turkey is incompatible with their use of the (Russian) S-300 and S-400 missiles. So we're still having those discussions. Should Turkey be able to resolve our concerns about that, then there could be a restoration of movement into the F-35 program," National Security Council spokesperson John Kirby told reporters at the White House.
"That's where we are," he added.
The U.S. suspended Türkiye from the F-35 fighter jet program in 2019 after objecting to its purchase of the Russian S-400 air defense system, claiming Moscow's system would endanger the fighter jets and is inoperable with NATO systems.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 3:45 pm to StormyMcMan
Two cheers for the Biden administration for this little "escalation":
Loading Twitter/X Embed...
If tweet fails to load, click here.Posted on 7/10/24 at 4:13 pm to Lee B
quote:
This goes back to faith in him, which I could not have less of...
I can understand why you feel that way, but one of Trump’s biggest assets is his unpredictability. In my opinion, that is why Trump had fewer “causes” to get our military involved in.
If conditions are settled before negotiations start and Ukraine is thrown under the bus, then everyone is going to know Trump like Neville Chamberlain gave up the store.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 4:47 pm to StormyMcMan
quote:
"There's no change to our view that the F-35 program for Turkey is incompatible with their use of the (Russian) S-300 and S-400 missiles. So we're still having those discussions. Should Turkey be able to resolve our concerns about that, then there could be a restoration of movement into the F-35 program,"
It seems like giving those systems to Ukraine in exchange for Patriots could fit the bill. One thing people forget is that Turkey has between 2 and 5 million Tatars who were "cleansed" from Crimea by Stalin. That is a good part of why Turkey has mostly been supportive of Ukraine. I still think the best solution for Crimea is to make it an independent region in which only people with two generation ago residency can vote.
Of course Russia would fabricate the shite out of those records. (And the Politards would fall right in line, like good little Quislings).
Posted on 7/10/24 at 5:12 pm to StormyMcMan
quote:
That was Turkey
Thanks!!!
Posted on 7/10/24 at 5:18 pm to doubleb
quote:
can understand why you feel that way, but one of Trump’s biggest assets is his unpredictability. In my opinion, that is why Trump had fewer “causes” to get our military involved in.
Trump also holds grudges. Right now he has a grudge against Zelensky. If Putin embarrasses him by not negotiating in good faith I could see him switching sides.
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