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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 6/10/24 at 10:57 am to LSUPilot07
Posted on 6/10/24 at 10:57 am to LSUPilot07
quote:
s. This is a pace of destruction that Russia can’t keep up with. They already are scavenging air defense systems from around Russia and Kaliningrad to replace those lost on the front lines
Ukraine is launching basically fixed gear Cessna 152s with 500# warheads and fuel barrels strapped to the back seat. And they're flying at 200 feet AGL at 120 knots for hundreds of miles inside Russia before crashing into Gen 5 fighter bombers.
That would be like Guatemalan street gangs taking out F-35s parked at Nellis Nevada.
Did you see that video over the weekend? As the Cessna style drone was lumbering towards its target, all you could hear was the Rat, Rat, Rat of security guards with AK-47s trying to shoot it down. Why aren't their advanced fighter bases even covered by the most rudimentary AA systems? A 20mm autocannon with radar guidance could have smoked that thing 2 miles away. That's late 40s/early 50s technology.
To say Russia has an air defense problem is a bit of an understatement.
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Posted on 6/10/24 at 11:02 am to LeClerc
quote:
Now do the Freedom Caucus.
You can't refute anything I posted but only deflect. Name one thing that Biden has been successful on. Just one. It's sad when one can't name one positive aspect that this administration has accomplished. The Freedom Caucus is not running the country.
Europe is waking up. Weak Biden like politicians like Scholz and Macron took a beating over the weekend. The Right and Center Right parties made significant gains. The left parties and the Greens were basically wiped out. I can only pray that America will do the same. Europeans are fed up with the leftist policies such as wokeness, immigration(invasion) and climate change.
This post was edited on 6/10/24 at 11:07 am
Posted on 6/10/24 at 11:40 am to AU86
This is mostly beyond Ukraine and is more of a PoliBoard discussion...
But I meant to qualify that I'm not a Biden "fanboy." Nobody I know is a Biden fan, exactly... you and I will split on whether Trump is better, because I think Trump was much, much, much worse. The difference between riding in a school bus driven by an 80-year-old who's putting along at 25 mph and speeding in a car driven by an erratic and unpredictable person who's easily distracted by their phone and billboards and doesn't have their hands on the wheel most of the time and John Bolton or somebody is reaching over to steer...
We're not going to see that the same way. That's why there's two choices to vote for.
But I meant to qualify that I'm not a Biden "fanboy." Nobody I know is a Biden fan, exactly... you and I will split on whether Trump is better, because I think Trump was much, much, much worse. The difference between riding in a school bus driven by an 80-year-old who's putting along at 25 mph and speeding in a car driven by an erratic and unpredictable person who's easily distracted by their phone and billboards and doesn't have their hands on the wheel most of the time and John Bolton or somebody is reaching over to steer...
We're not going to see that the same way. That's why there's two choices to vote for.
Posted on 6/10/24 at 11:49 am to AU86
quote:
Europe is waking up. Weak Biden like politicians like Scholz and Macron took a beating over the weekend. The Right and Center Right parties made significant gains. The left parties and the Greens were basically wiped out. I can only pray that America will do the same. Europeans are fed up with the leftist policies such as wokeness, immigration(invasion) and climate change.
No... this was "EU Parliament" elections... each country directly elects their representatives to the EU Parliament, and the dynamic is that far-right parties do better because people use these elections to register their frustrations with the EU... mostly, that they don't feel that they have enough power in it, and sending the people who want to abolish and disrupt it sends that message, as well as the usual clusterfrick that is Parliamentary-style elections (our Founding Fathers set us up to default to a two-party system because they thought Parliamentary systems were inconsistent chaos)...
BUT that's a different story than National Parliaments... when those far-right parties do better than expected in the EU Parliamentary elections, they start screaming that they have more support than is reflected in their National Parliament and that makes it illegitimate... so the move by Macron and other to force snap elections is to combat that, and there's a difference between "I'll vote for or just let these nuts win to send a middle-finger to the EU'" and "I want them in charge of my National Parliament," so they usually don't win.
But it is always a gamble.
But LePen and her type are mostly Putin fans... some of the Eastern European countries have far-right groups that extremely anti-Russia because of memories Soviet occupation, some Western European countries have far right political groups that are pro-Putin for whatever reasons (usually being supporters of general Autocracy instead of Democracy).
This post was edited on 6/10/24 at 11:51 am
Posted on 6/10/24 at 12:00 pm to Lee B
quote:I don't engage in fantasy, unrealistic or otherwise.
You're indulging in unrealistic fantasy.
That is why I quoted Boris Johnson verbatim in my post.
In Apr'22, Johnson scuttled peace talks because he thought "we" (meaning young Ukrainians) could "press" Putin. A few weeks later, Lloyd Austin conveyed the same message to Kyiv.
According to David Arahamiya, the leader of Ukraine’s ruling party, in April 2022 Russia was “ready to end the war if we took neutrality,” but Boris Johnson said, “let’s just fight.” Johnson further forced the issue intimating the West would offer no security guarantees if Ukraine conceded to the peace agreement with Russia.
Posted on 6/10/24 at 12:03 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Johnson further forced the issue intimating the West would offer no security guarantees if Ukraine conceded to the peace agreement with Russia
You can't convince the clowns here but good try
Posted on 6/10/24 at 12:03 pm to AU86
quote:
Europe is waking up. Weak Biden like politicians like Scholz and Macron took a beating over the weekend.
And the way Macron has been acting since has only really proven the far right people he is concerned about correct
Posted on 6/10/24 at 12:08 pm to LeClerc
quote:
Now do the Freedom Caucus.
Yes, the likes of Moscow Marjorie Traitor Greene and the Putin Wing of the GOP are not saying "we need to see a decisive plan for Ukrainian victory!" they're saying Ukraine is corrupt and bad and Russia is good and fighting for Christianity and against LGBT insanity and should win! or whatever... repeating scripted Kremlin PR campaigns... and we wonder why posters come in her repeating those things over and over
Posted on 6/10/24 at 12:18 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
quote:
You're indulging in unrealistic fantasy.
I don't engage in fantasy, unrealistic or otherwise.
That is why I quoted Boris Johnson verbatim in my post.
In Apr'22, Johnson scuttled peace talks because he thought "we" (meaning young Ukrainians) could "press" Putin. A few weeks later, Lloyd Austin conveyed the same message to Kyiv.
According to David Arahamiya, the leader of Ukraine’s ruling party, in April 2022 Russia was “ready to end the war if we took neutrality,” but Boris Johnson said, “let’s just fight.” Johnson further forced the issue intimating the West would offer no security guarantees if Ukraine conceded to the peace agreement with Russia.
As people have answered the other ten times you or someone else claimed this...
Johnson said "You're being suckered and Putin doesn't honor these agreements." And since they rightfully did not expect the fighting to stop why would they agree to security agreements that just plunged the West into more direct fighting if Ukraine made concessions on things regarding their own military for supposed "peace."
But I'm sure when you read the Putin claim that Johnson sank the peace deal it didn't say any of that, right?
BBC (9/22/22): "Boris Johnson warns against a Ukraine-Russia Peace deal"
"There is 'absolutely no sign' that Russia wants to reach a deal with Ukraine, and it could not be trusted even if one was on offer."
You very much live in a complete fantasy world where someone who has never honored an agreement they made with another country can be taken at his word.
This post was edited on 6/10/24 at 12:19 pm
Posted on 6/10/24 at 12:21 pm to GoAwayImBaitn
quote:
You can't convince the clowns here but good try
The clowns here are still waiting on you to describe what a Russian victory looks like......
Posted on 6/10/24 at 12:21 pm to RuLSU
quote:
quote:
We should ask ourselves the same question re: Ukraine.
Ukaine maintains most of the territory they hold, forcing peace from Russia that explicitly permits them to join the EU while retaining security guarantees.
That's a win. Anything above and beyond that is a huge win and a crushing defeat for Putin.
look, apparently, now they will be coming in here and asking "Has Ukraine seized Moscow, yet? They haven't? Then they're losing!"
Posted on 6/10/24 at 12:23 pm to No Colors
quote:
The clowns here are still waiting on you to describe what a Russian victory looks like......
Trump wins the election... that's what Putin is hanging his hopes on...
Posted on 6/10/24 at 12:23 pm to No Colors
quote:
The clowns here are still waiting on you to describe what a Russian victory looks like....
Show us how Ukraine losing control over their territories equates to winning
Posted on 6/10/24 at 12:37 pm to Lee B
quote:No Tinkerbell.
But I'm sure when you read the Putin claim that Johnson sank the peace deal it didn't say any of that, right?
Putin is not the source here. Ukrainian officials and Boris Johnson himself are the sources.
Nor is Putin the majority leader of the Ukrainian government. Mr. Arahamiya is. That is why I quoted Mr. Arahamiya's November 24, 2023 statement ... verbatim.
Posted on 6/10/24 at 12:39 pm to GoAwayImBaitn
quote:
Show us how Ukraine losing control over their territories equates to winning
Which Oblasts does Russia control today that it didn't control three years ago?
Which major cities does Russia control today that it didn't control three years ago?
Neither side is winning. But one side is going to win eventually.
And I keep asking this: What does a Russian victory look like? What does it need to capture in order to declare victory and go home?
In the beginning Putin tried to capture Kiev and replace the government with a Russian puppet. Now, that ain't happening.
Then he tried to take a handful of major cities. Now, that ain't happening.
Then he tried to take all of 4 Oblasts. Now, that ain't happening.
Then he tried to say this whole thing was because he couldn't stand more NATO countries on his border. So by invading Ukraine he just got at least two more NATO neighbors. So that didn't happen.
And he said he wanted to "demilitarize" Ukraine. Now, not only is that not happening, but Ukraine will soon have one of the most advanced militaries in the world. And Europe is building arms manufacturing plants all over Western Ukraine. So that definitely ain't happening.
So what did he invade for? What does Russian victory look like?
Posted on 6/10/24 at 12:41 pm to No Colors
quote:
But one side is going to win eventually.
There will be no winners here.
Posted on 6/10/24 at 12:57 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
There will be no winners here
bUT wHaT dOeS a RuSsIaN vIcToRy lOok LiKE?!?
Posted on 6/10/24 at 1:01 pm to GoAwayImBaitn
quote:
bUT wHaT dOeS a RuSsIaN vIcToRy lOok LiKE?!?
quote:
what a Russian victory looks like
----
We should ask ourselves the same question re: Ukraine.
But specific to your question, victory looks like one side or the other has attained expectations. In Russia's case that means "victory" in Feb'22 looked very different than "victory" in June'24. At the outset, Putin's expectation was Russia would occupy Kyiv and control most of Ukraine by the summer. Those expectations got vaporized. So Putin and Russia hit the expectation reset button. Now they'd consider acceptance of Russian control over the occupied territories to be "victory."
In reality, the war has been terrible for Russia. The Russians come off as feckless, and conventionally vulnerable. Aside from a complete Ukrainian capitulation, there is no path to a true Russian victory at this stage IMO.
Posted on 6/10/24 at 1:03 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Nor is Putin the majority leader of the Ukrainian government. Mr. Arahamiya is. That is why I quoted Mr. Arahamiya's November 24, 2023 statement ... verbatim.
Context matters. Here is his full statement.
David Arahamiya, leader of the President's “Servant of the People” party and head of the Ukrainian delegation during last year’s talks with Russia, has revealed that Russia proposed ending the war in spring 2022 on the condition that Ukraine abandon its NATO aspirations and adopt a neutral stance.
“They really hoped almost to the last that they would put the squeeze on us to sign such an agreement so that we would take neutrality. It was the biggest thing for them,” Arahamiya said in an interview with Ukrainian journalist Natalia Moseychuk.
“They were ready to end the war if we took – as Finland once did – neutrality and made commitments that we would not join NATO. This was the key point,” he added.
Speaking further and explaining Kyiv's refusal to accept the proposal, Arakhamia said that it would require a constitutional change, given that Ukraine’s Constitution states its intention to become a NATO member.
Additionally, he emphasized a lack of trust in the Russian position.
"There is no, and there was no, trust in the Russians that they would do it. That could only be done if there were security guarantees."
Arahamiya clarified that signing such an agreement without guarantees would have left Ukraine vulnerable to a second incursion.
“They would have come in more prepared, because they came in, in fact, unprepared for such resistance,” Arakhamia said.
The Kyiv Post
Posted on 6/10/24 at 1:13 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
No Tinkerbell.
Putin is not the source here. Ukrainian officials and Boris Johnson himself are the sources.
Nor is Putin the majority leader of the Ukrainian government. Mr. Arahamiya is. That is why I quoted Mr. Arahamiya's November 24, 2023 statement ... verbatim.
Well Nancy, you didn't quote him verbatim, you took him out of context, in line with Putin's misrepresentation of his position.
And Johnson isn't the head of the Ukrainian majority party, either...
You're living in a fantasy world, Shirley.
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