re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

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There is no reason to think that the Russians wouldn't have undermined any agreed deal immediately, as has been their pattern.

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You could continue to use this logic pretty much indefinitely though. At some point we either go to the table and hope he keeps his word, or we just fight this out until Ukraine collapses or Russia withdraws.

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You could continue to use this logic pretty much indefinitely though. 

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Did they or did they not violate those agreements?

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Did they or did they not violate those agreements?

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I'm not saying they didn't, I'm saying if you won't go to the table because of that now then we will never go to it. It either ends at the table or with someone knocked out.

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Russia has stated x100 times and for decades that they do not want NATO on their border

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I'm a little shocked no one else has brought this up yet

NATO countries that border Russia and when they entered the alliance

Poland - 1999
Lithuania - 2004
Latvia - 2004
Estonia - 2004
Finland - 2023

Also current countries in NATOs Partenership for Peace that border Russia

Azerbaijan- 1994
Georgia - 1994
Kazakhstan - 1994
Ukraine - 1994

Prior members of the partnership for peace
Russia - joined in 1994 and suspended in 2021
Belarus - joined in 1995 and suspended in 2021

I just cannot get over your faith in Putin as some honest and dependable person.

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I'm not saying they didn't, I'm saying if you won't go to the table because of that now then we will never go to it. It either ends at the table or with someone knocked out.

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Weird how you couldn't give me a straight answer. By all indications, they've taken a maximalist position. It was the West that was divided in terms of how to approach the Russians, with their neighbors taking more extreme positions, while the Germans followed Merkel's 'change through trade' approach. It turned out that their former allies were right about the Russians all along and thus the West has to take a maximalist stance as well. That's the context under which any negotiations have to take place.

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I just cannot get over your faith in Putin as some honest and dependable person.

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I don't think he is, but we deal with people who aren't honest or dependable all the time. Probably daily for most of us. You have to adjust how you operate, for sure. But you usually can't just lock those people out entirely.

Dmytro Kuleba
@DmytroKuleba
To those who have missed the previous 30 years, here is a short list of the results of negotiations with Russia that it never respected:

1. The Budapest Memorandum of 1994. Russia agreed to “respect independence, sovereignty, and the existing borders of Ukraine” as well as “refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine”. Breached by Russia invading Crimea in 2014.

2. The Russian-Ukrainian Friendship Treaty of 1997. Russia agreed to respect Ukraine’s territorial integrity and “reaffirmed the inviolability of the borders” between the two countries. Russia breached it in 2014.

3. The OSCE Istanbul Summit in 1999. Russia committed to withdrawing its troops from Moldova’s Transdniestrian region and Georgia until the end of 2002. That never happened.

4. The 2008 Georgia ceasefire agreement following Russian aggression against the country. Russia agreed that “Russian military forces must withdraw to the lines prior to the start of hostilities”. That never happened.

5. The Ilovaysk “Green Corridor” in August 2014 and other “humanitarian” death corridors. Russia pledged to let Ukrainian forces leave the encircled town of Ilovaysk in the east of Ukraine, but instead opened fire and killed 366 Ukrainian troops. In the following years, Russia attacked numerous humanitarian corridors in Syria.

6. The “Minsk” agreements of 2014 and 2015. Russia agreed to cease the fire in the east of Ukraine. There had been 200 rounds of talks and 20 attempts to enforce a ceasefire, all of which the Russian side promptly violated. On February 24th, 2022, Russia launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine.

7. The 2022 Black Sea Grain Initiative. Russia pledged to “provide maximum assurances regarding a safe and secure environment for all vessels engaged in this initiative." It then hindered the initiative's operation for months before withdrawing unilaterally a year later.

NB: I am only focused on deals made with Russia to address specific issues and conflicts. I am not mentioning almost 400 international treaties that Russia has breached since 2014.

There are no conclusions to be drawn here, except that no one can seriously use the words "Russia" and "negotiations" in the same phrase.

Putin is a habitual liar who promised international leaders that he would not attack Ukraine days before his invasion in February 2022.

Russia's tactic has remained consistent in its many wars over the last three decades: kill, grab, lie, and deny.

Why would anyone genuinely believe that Russia in 2023 is any different from Russia in 1994, 1997, 1999, 2008, 2014, 2015, and 2022?

Dmytro Kuleba
@DmytroKuleba
Ukraine and Russia were close to a peace deal in spring 2022 but Ukraine rejected it?

This is one of the favorite lies promoted by Russia and its sympathisers to shift the focus… and blame.

However, a closer look at the facts reveals that the whole story does not hold water.

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You think medicine is low-risk?

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You think it isn't? lmao