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Message
re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 7/15/23 at 6:44 pm to GOP_Tiger
Posted on 7/15/23 at 6:44 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
Here's a very useful spreadsheet maintained by @naalsio26 showing only equipment losses on the southern front during the Ukrainian offensive.
Thank you for that, this sort of data is illuminating from a numbers perspective.
The below table has added % loss against the overall total losses for each side. I have also grouped similar platform types together as Artillery, Air Defence (AD), and AFV/IFM to show their combined total losses.
With over a month of data there are some clear trends that can be extrapolated, at least according to the numbers presented in the spreadsheet. Losses are slightly higher for Ukraine which is to be expected given they are assaulting prepared defensive positions. An almost 1:1 ratio of equipment losses could be considered reasonable in light of Russia's air power advantage if Ukraine was not reliant on Western supplies and equipment. It will be revealing if the more recent trend of higher losses for Russia continues as Ukraine adapts their strategy, especially with cluster munitions being deployed.
1) A huge number of Ukraine losses (66.7%) are some version of troop transport, however only 50% of these were actually destroyed (Comparatively Russia saw a 69.6% destruction rate of similar platforms). Despite this it does indicate Ukraine is losing more manpower due to higher crew compliments in these platforms.
Edit: As pointed out by GOP_Tiger
quote:
It also reflects that it's likely that a majority of Ukrainian losses are to mines, which might de-track a Bradley but not destroy it. Russian losses, on the other hand, are more likely to be from artillery.
2) Ukraine is seeing a 20% difference in destroyed equipment compared to Russia (58.5% versus 78.7%). This is practically all in the abandoned category and while such equipment can subsequently be destroyed it supports the position that Ukraine crews have a better chance of survivability in Western equipment. A more precise breakdown of whether it is Russian or Western equipment surviving is needed to further verify this, but I don't have time right now.
3) In artillery losses Ukraine is seeing a significant advantage at almost 4:1 in their favour (Artillery losses account for over 20% of Russian losses). There are also significant advantages in AD at 5:1 and Trucks at over 8:1, though in the case of the trucks this could be due to them being used in place of armoured transports for troops.
Edit: Further on this point from GOP_Tiger
quote:
You can certainly see the strategy of both sides reflected in the data...Ukraine has been targeting Russian artillery and logistics. They want to prevent artillery shells from hitting them as they try to clear minefields and advance...Russia has been targeting Ukrainian engineering (especially mine-clearing) vehicles to prevent Ukrainian advancement.
4) Difference in tank losses seems to confirm Ukraine has moved away from using them after the poor performance in the initial pushes. It is interesting to see Ukraine losses are considerably lower with how many were claimed as losses over the past month via Russian channels. There is again a higher survivability indicated by Ukraine equipment (62% Ukrainian versus 76.7% Russian destroyed), but given the lower numbers is a more tenuous trend.
Edit: Added quotes and further context
This post was edited on 7/15/23 at 10:17 pm
Posted on 7/15/23 at 7:07 pm to beerJeep
quote:
And in a war of attrition, numbers are the deciding factor.
quote:
Ability to supply those numbers matters moar
That’s what I was talking about. Do you not know what mobilization actually is? Do you think it’s just about calling up more frontline combat troops?
Mobilization means far more than simply putting a rifle in a guy’s hand and sending him to the front. It means also calling up the guys who will have to fill out the logistics and support roles to keep the guy with the rifle in the fight. In World War II, we mobilized 16 million men. Of that 16 million, well over half had rear area administration, logistics, and support jobs. It’s all numbers. And to get the numbers, you have to mobilize.
This post was edited on 7/15/23 at 7:09 pm
Posted on 7/15/23 at 7:08 pm to IAmNERD
quote:
Oof. SirWinstonNevilleChamberlain just outed his alter on accident
Mods if you can see my location and there is any other account from this location that posts on this forum immediately lifetime ban me from this site.
I’m a man. I’m 40. I’m nobody’s fricking alter
Posted on 7/15/23 at 7:14 pm to OutsideObserver
quote:
2) Ukraine is seeing a 20% difference in destroyed equipment compared to Russia (58.5% versus 78.7%). This is practically all in the abandoned category and while such equipment can subsequently be destroyed it supports the position that Ukraine crews have a better chance of survivability in Western equipment. A more precise breakdown of whether it is Russian or Western equipment surviving is needed to further verify this, but I don't have time right now.
It also reflects that it's likely that a majority of Ukrainian losses are to mines, which might de-track a Bradley but not destroy it. Russian losses, on the other hand, are more likely to be from artillery.
quote:
3) In artillery losses Ukraine is seeing a significant advantage at almost 4:1 in their favour (Artillery losses account for over 20% of Russian losses). There are also significant advantages in AD at 5:1 and Trucks at over 8:1, though in the case of the trucks this could be due to them being used in place of armoured transports for troops.
You can certainly see the strategy of both sides reflected in the data:
1) Ukraine has been targeting Russian artillery and logistics. They want to prevent artillery shells from hitting them as they try to clear minefields and advance.
2) Russia has been targeting Ukrainian engineering (especially mine-clearing) vehicles to prevent Ukrainian advancement.
Posted on 7/15/23 at 8:16 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
quote:
2) Ukraine is seeing a 20% difference in destroyed equipment compared to Russia (58.5% versus 78.7%). This is practically all in the abandoned category and while such equipment can subsequently be destroyed it supports the position that Ukraine crews have a better chance of survivability in Western equipment. A more precise breakdown of whether it is Russian or Western equipment surviving is needed to further verify this, but I don't have time right now.
It also reflects that it's likely that a majority of Ukrainian losses are to mines, which might de-track a Bradley but not destroy it. Russian losses, on the other hand, are more likely to be from artillery.
quote:
3) In artillery losses Ukraine is seeing a significant advantage at almost 4:1 in their favour (Artillery losses account for over 20% of Russian losses). There are also significant advantages in AD at 5:1 and Trucks at over 8:1, though in the case of the trucks this could be due to them being used in place of armoured transports for troops.
You can certainly see the strategy of both sides reflected in the data:
1) Ukraine has been targeting Russian artillery and logistics. They want to prevent artillery shells from hitting them as they try to clear minefields and advance.
2) Russia has been targeting Ukrainian engineering (especially mine-clearing) vehicles to prevent Ukrainian advancement.
Good points, will add to my original post with credit to yourself if you don't mind?
Posted on 7/15/23 at 9:23 pm to GOP_Tiger
Isw Update
quote:
Key Takeaways:
Russian sources reported on July 15 that the Russian military command dismissed 106th Guards Airborne (VDV) Division Commander Major General Vladimir Seliverstov.
Seliverstov’s dismissal may be a part of an ongoing purge of insubordinate commanders by the Russian military command and may suggest that the corrosion of the Russian chain of command in Ukraine is accelerating.
The Russian military leadership is likely attempting to dissuade commanders from emulating recent cases of insubordination by punishing those involved in leaking Popov’s message of complaints.
Growing insubordination will likely exacerbate existing factional divides within the Russian military and the wider Russian security sphere.
Factions within the Russian security forces and the Kremlin appear to be fighting for control over the Russian insider information space.
Polyakov’s arrest suggests that different factions within the Kremlin and Russian security entities are exploiting the Russian information space and secret information to advance their political and financial objectives against the backdrop of Russia’s war in Ukraine.
Ukrainian forces conducted counteroffensive operations on at least three sectors of the front on June 15 and reportedly made limited gains.
The New York Times (NYT) reported that the Ukrainian military has adjusted its strategy to minimize Ukrainian casualties while continuing to attrit Russian forces, supporting ISW’s previous assessments.
The Belarusian Ministry of Defense (MoD) announced that it developed a plan for Wagner Group personnel to train Belarusian forces as Ukrainian, Russian, and Belarusian sources continue to report that Wagner forces are moving to Belarus.
Russian authorities likely continue to forcibly integrate Ukrainian Orthodox Church (UOC) dioceses into the Kremlin-controlled Russian Orthodox Church (ROC) as part of a wider religious persecution campaign in occupied Ukraine.
Russian forces conducted offensive operations and made limited territorial gains near Svatove.
Ukrainian forces reportedly made limited territorial gains on Bakhmut’s southern flank, while Russian sources claimed that Russian forces made limited advances on Bakhmut’s northern and southern flanks.
Russian forces continued limited offensive operations on the Donetsk City-Avdiivka line but did not make any territorial gains.
Ukrainian forces continued counteroffensive operations along the western Donetsk-eastern Zaporizhia Oblast border and reportedly made limited gains.
Ukrainian forces continued counteroffensive operations and reportedly made limited advances in western Zaporizhia Oblast.
The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) announced the completion of Russia’s spring 2023 conscription cycle on July 15.
The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported that the Kremlin launched a program to recruit young adults in Russia for service in occupation administrations in Ukraine.
Posted on 7/16/23 at 12:14 am to StormyMcMan
While adjusting for inflation, the US military budget now stands at 1T USD.
The highest since WWII.

The highest since WWII.
Posted on 7/16/23 at 2:22 am to Errerrerrwere
Morning update from Pegov alias WarGonzo (yes he is alive).
1?AFU attacked east of the M18/E105 east of Kam'yans'ke and took up new important positions
2?AFU advanced along the railway west of Dorozhnyanka
3?AFU took several positions SW of Pavlivka aiming for Yehorivka
LINK
Ukraine has also launched a drone attack on Servastopol. Probably going to be unsuccessful but still a nuisance for Russia. LINK
Russian Propagandists aren't happy.
LINK
1?AFU attacked east of the M18/E105 east of Kam'yans'ke and took up new important positions
2?AFU advanced along the railway west of Dorozhnyanka
3?AFU took several positions SW of Pavlivka aiming for Yehorivka
LINK
Ukraine has also launched a drone attack on Servastopol. Probably going to be unsuccessful but still a nuisance for Russia. LINK
Russian Propagandists aren't happy.
LINK
This post was edited on 7/16/23 at 2:31 am
Posted on 7/16/23 at 4:03 am to jefffan
There are a few claims out that Ukraine may have taken some or all of Staromaiors'ke.
https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/16804961697540136966
Girkin claims that Ukrainian defence forces are taking positions in Staromaiorske, a contested territory in the Berdiansk direction for the past month.
https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1680479172521607169
https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/16804961697540136966
Girkin claims that Ukrainian defence forces are taking positions in Staromaiorske, a contested territory in the Berdiansk direction for the past month.
quote:
However, the only trustworthy source, the Ukrainian army, has not spoken about it yet, so we are likely to see more conflicting messages in the nearest future until the information is confirmed or refuted.
https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1680479172521607169
quote:
Russian milblogger Romanov reports that Staromaiors'ke, south of Velyka Novosilka is under the control of Ukrainian forces. Several days ago we reported that the AFU had indeed entered the outskirts and fighting was ongoing. We are waiting for the visual confirmation.
![]()
A channel connected to the Belarusian security services and other RU channels also confirm that Staromaiors'ke is controlled by Ukrainian forces. Images will likely soon appear.
Posted on 7/16/23 at 5:09 am to OutsideObserver
Reports of a significant hit by Ukranian forces in Luhansk around the mining town of Yuvileine (Yubileynoye). Russia has claimed they used cluster munitions but this is highly unlikely as at approx 100km this is well outside both 155mm and standard HIMARS range.
Expect to see cluster munition use being waved frequently by Russia as Putin is claimed to have appeared on Russian TV saying "they will respond in kind" now Ukraine is using them.
https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1680477208987484160 - Video in comments
https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1680491922568224768
https://twitter.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1680507082322190336
This is the DefMon3 thread referenced above, quite long but worth a look to show the scale of what a successful strike here would mean.
https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1596872775859601410
Edit: Clarity
Expect to see cluster munition use being waved frequently by Russia as Putin is claimed to have appeared on Russian TV saying "they will respond in kind" now Ukraine is using them.
https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1680477208987484160 - Video in comments
quote:
Explosions are recorded in Luhansk. There are also reports about explosions in Berdyansk.
"AFU hit Luhansk using long-range cluster munitions," retired 'LPR' Lieutenant Colonel Andrei Marochko.
![]()
https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1680491922568224768
quote:
Putin about the supply of cluster munitions to Ukraine.
"Russia has a sufficient supply of various types of cluster munitions. We have not used them so far, there was no such need. But if they are used against us, we reserve the right to mirror actions."
https://twitter.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1680507082322190336
quote:
The coal mine at Yuvileine has been massively struck by Ukrainian forces this morning. It has been a vital logistics hub for Russian forces in the area for a long time, just outside of GMLRS range.
This is the DefMon3 thread referenced above, quite long but worth a look to show the scale of what a successful strike here would mean.
https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1596872775859601410
Edit: Clarity
This post was edited on 7/16/23 at 5:10 am
Posted on 7/16/23 at 6:28 am to OutsideObserver
quote:
Putin about the supply of cluster munitions to Ukraine.
"Russia has a sufficient supply of various types of cluster munitions. We have not used them so far, there was no such need. But if they are used against us, we reserve the right to mirror actions."
I mean that's just a bold faced lie right there
Posted on 7/16/23 at 6:36 am to OutsideObserver
quote:
There are a few claims out that Ukraine may have taken some or all of Staromaiors'ke.
Other reports are now saying that Ukraine has taken the northern part of the town, but that fighting continues in the southern part.
Taking Staromaiorske would be a big deal on that axis.
Posted on 7/16/23 at 6:43 am to GOP_Tiger
British Defence Intelligence
INTELLIGENCE UPDATE
UPDATE ON UKRAINE 16 July 2023
The Russian security apparatus entered a period of confusion and negotiations after Wagner Group's 24 June 2023 mutiny. In recent days, an interim arrangement for the future of the group has started to take shape.
On 12 July 2023, the Russian MoD announced that Wagner had handed over 2000 pieces of military equipment, including tanks. As of 15 July 2023, at least a small contingent of Wagner fighters have arrived at a camp in Belarus.
Concurrently, some Wagner-associated social media groups have resumed activity, with a focus on highlighting the group's activities in Africa. Based on recent announcements by Russian officials, the state is likely prepared to accept Wagner's aspirations to maintain its extensive presence on the continent.
INTELLIGENCE UPDATE
UPDATE ON UKRAINE 16 July 2023
The Russian security apparatus entered a period of confusion and negotiations after Wagner Group's 24 June 2023 mutiny. In recent days, an interim arrangement for the future of the group has started to take shape.
On 12 July 2023, the Russian MoD announced that Wagner had handed over 2000 pieces of military equipment, including tanks. As of 15 July 2023, at least a small contingent of Wagner fighters have arrived at a camp in Belarus.
Concurrently, some Wagner-associated social media groups have resumed activity, with a focus on highlighting the group's activities in Africa. Based on recent announcements by Russian officials, the state is likely prepared to accept Wagner's aspirations to maintain its extensive presence on the continent.
Posted on 7/16/23 at 6:54 am to StormyMcMan
Random tweets:
Putin can't publicly state what the goals of his SMO are
LINK
LINK
LINK
Putin can't publicly state what the goals of his SMO are
quote:
The Kremlin Loony who already killed 300,000 of his mobiks for his own deranged goal of staying in power forever is smiling telling a "journalist" that Ukrainians have no success in the counter-offensive.
The "journalist" asked him about the goals of the war, but the maniac promised to tell him this information "in private". Why would a "journalist" need "private" information like this is unclear. Most likely, because the sicko's only current goal is to keep his head on his shoulder for as long as possible.
LINK
quote:
Rashist mobiks in Bakhmut refused to complete "suicide orders" and are now threatened with shooting by their leadership. The men hit all bingo cards: terrible commanders, no ammo, no artillery and aviation support, delays in payments, and no rotation or rest:
"Hello. We’re the mobilised from the 85th Brigade. Together with us are also contractors whose contracts ran out, but they’re still fighting here with us, now for 10-11 months.
We’d like to say that during all this time, we’ve been mobilised for 7-8 months, we always unconditionally completed all orders at fronts near Kreminna and Belohirivka, without fear.
But now, we’ve been thrown to Bahkmut to unprepared unmined positions, with a drunk company commander who led us to these positions. We didn’t reach them, we were shelled with tanks, mortars, Polish missiles.
We came to the company commander and explained that we won’t pass there. We came across employees of PMC “Hurricane” who were leaving those positions, they were the first with losses.
They explained to us that we’re simply suiciders, we won’t pass there. To which the company commander said we needed to complete the order. But as we’re the mobilised, not stormtroopers or spetsnaz, without ammo, without food, without evacuation, without vehicles, we were thrown in like stormtroopers.
We refused, only laying down weapons by the order of the Brigade commander, under threats of shooting, accused of betrayal, and threatened with imprisonment.
We didn’t reach those positions. We are now sat in Svetlodarsk, in some strange building. But as they didn’t take away our phones, we’re trying to record a video for our relatives who could help us.
We do not refuse to fight, we can take weapons again, but not in this direction, and not in the first line of defence. As I already said, we always followed our orders without being afraid, under mortar and enemy bullets.
But now, after this time, we’re simply defeated psychologically by our command. We don’t even have medals for the SMO, we were not given any payments. By the way, our salaries come late and not in full.
There’s no rotation, no rest provided to us. So that’s what it is. And we’re now accused of betrayal and cowardice forgetting about our previous achievements.
We were sent there without artillery and aviation support which are unable to suppress the enemy fire. We came under shelling, and after all that happened, the commander, answering why our artillery and aviation were silent, said there’s no ammo - “Go die an honourable death”.
But we’re not suiciders, we’re simple mobilised, workmen, just like anyone else.
We were called P.O.W.s and threatened with killing, threatened to be sent to Storm units containing unprepared people, or sent back to the zero line. But we’re simply afraid that our commanders will shoot us there.
We do not refuse to serve and complete combat tasks, just not in this direction, not on the first line, and not with these commanders."
LINK
quote:
The coal mine at Yuvileine has been massively struck by Ukrainian forces this morning. It has been a vital logistics hub for Russian forces in the area for a long time, just outside of GMLRS range.
see @DefMon3's detailed thread on the mine from November)
LINK
We will need to see satellite imagery to confirm the extent to the damage, but it appears to be a massive loss to Russian logistics in the area.
With Storm Shadow's range, Russia will once again be forced to move massed logistics hubs further from the front.
Hilariously Russian state media is calling it a "cluster munitions" strike because " there was not one explosion, but there were a large number of them and almost simultaneously"
That would be your own ammunition blowing up Vlad.
quote:
??This morning, the last ship as part of the grain initiative left the port of Odesa, –– Reuters reports.
It should deliver 15,300 tons of rapeseed and 23,500 tons of corn to the Netherlands. This vessel was the last to receive permission from the Joint Coordination Center (JCC) to pass through the Bosphorus to Odesa on June 28.
The grain deal expires tomorrow. So far, no information has been received from Russia that it will give its consent to the continuation of the operation of the corridor.
??Follow
@Flash_news_ua
LINK
Posted on 7/16/23 at 8:18 am to StormyMcMan
I decided to post a map of the Velyka Novosilka axis (what the Russians call the Vremivsky Ridge axis). I marked Staromaiorske with a big, blue circle. Ukraine is trying to take this town today.
If the Ukrainians are successful, then they will work to take Pryyutne to the west, and Urozhaine on the other side of the little Mokri Yaly River. Ukraine actually made an attempt to take Urozhaine two days, which failed, but control of Straromaiorske would enable Ukraine to pressure Urozhaine from the other side of the river.
After that, it will be fairly easy for Ukraine to push the front line up another mile or so. But Staromaiorske is still 8 miles from the big, fortified Russian defensive line shown at the bottom of the map.

If the Ukrainians are successful, then they will work to take Pryyutne to the west, and Urozhaine on the other side of the little Mokri Yaly River. Ukraine actually made an attempt to take Urozhaine two days, which failed, but control of Straromaiorske would enable Ukraine to pressure Urozhaine from the other side of the river.
After that, it will be fairly easy for Ukraine to push the front line up another mile or so. But Staromaiorske is still 8 miles from the big, fortified Russian defensive line shown at the bottom of the map.
Posted on 7/16/23 at 8:30 am to GOP_Tiger
There are also reports this morning that Ukraine is advancing along a new axis along the southern front, towards Polohy.
I've marked the attack on this map. I don't think much is known yet about how large this attack is.
I've marked the attack on this map. I don't think much is known yet about how large this attack is.
Posted on 7/16/23 at 8:48 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
![]()
quote:
I decided to post a map of the Velyka Novosilka axis (what the Russians call the Vremivsky Ridge axis). I marked Staromaiorske with a big, blue circle. Ukraine is trying to take this town today.
If the Ukrainians are successful, then they will work to take Pryyutne to the west, and Urozhaine on the other side of the little Mokri Yaly River. Ukraine actually made an attempt to take Urozhaine two days, which failed, but control of Straromaiorske would enable Ukraine to pressure Urozhaine from the other side of the river.
After that, it will be fairly easy for Ukraine to push the front line up another mile or so. But Staromaiorske is still 8 miles from the big, fortified Russian defensive line shown at the bottom of the map.
This looks and sounds like you’re describing a battlefield of 1916 instead of 2023.
Posted on 7/16/23 at 9:18 am to Errerrerrwere
quote:
The highest since WWII.
I’m not in the defense industry… but I imagine it cost a whole frick ton more to create modern weapon platforms than WWII era weapon platforms.
Idk. Just a hunch.
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