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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 6/6/23 at 9:41 am to
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
21020 posts
Posted on 6/6/23 at 9:41 am to
Financial Times:

quote:

The destruction of the Kakhovka dam and power plant that unleashed floodwater across southern Ukraine is likely to limit Kyiv’s options in its incipient counter-offensive, according to military officials and analysts.

Moscow and Kyiv traded blame on Tuesday for the demise of the dam, which spanned the Dnipro river and is located in Russian-occupied Kherson province.

Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov claimed it was a “deliberate act of sabotage by the Ukrainian side aimed at depriving Crimea of water” and intended to distract from the “stuttering Ukrainian offensive”.

But Ukrhydroenergo, Ukraine’s state-owned hydropower company, said an explosion inside the engine room had demolished the dam, while President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said “Russian terrorists” were at fault.

“It is physically impossible to blow it up somehow from the outside — with shelling. It was mined. It was mined by the Russian occupiers and blown up by them,” he said. “Russia detonated a bomb of mass environmental damage. This is the biggest man-made environmental disaster in Europe in decades.”

Neither claim could be immediately verified.
But some military analysts and Ukrainian officials say the timing of the dam’s destruction is suspicious, as it largely benefits Russia, by scuppering Kyiv’s plans to attack to the south and increasing the likelihood of an eastward offensive that Moscow could focus on. Russian forces have failed to make any significant battlefield advances this year after announcing an offensive in January.

“The purpose is obvious: to create insurmountable obstacles in the way of the advancing Ukrainian armed forces,” said Mykhailo Podolyak, a top adviser to Zelenskyy.
quote:

“Russia benefits from the frontline being smaller because it is easier to concentrate forces to prevent a breakthrough,” said Rob Lee, senior fellow at the Foreign Policy Research Institute, a US think-tank. “So if a Ukrainian operation in Kherson is less likely now, they might be able to move more forces east.”

A Ukrainian military official speaking on condition of anonymity said officials were assessing the damage caused by the flooding and would adjust their counteroffensive plans accordingly.

“If we had any plans for a landing operation there, we definitely won’t do it anytime soon,” they said. “Immediately after [the flooding], the land will be a marsh, essentially.”

Andriy Zagorodnyuk, a military adviser and former Ukrainian defence minister, said it was likely that Kyiv’s generals “have alternative plans”. The flooding may be a setback, he said, but it won’t stop Ukraine’s counter-offensive.

“If we wanted to cross the river there, it’s not going to happen,” he added. “Basically, it denies any ability for us to cross the river and move equipment in that area. Essentially, that’s why most likely Russia did it, particularly now.”

Ukraine’s Centre for Strategic Communication and Information Security, a government unit, said it was possible Russian forces blew up the dam to flood islands downstream, which it said had been recaptured by Ukrainian troops on Monday.
quote:

But the flooding affects Russian forces, too. “The destruction of the dam floods the first Russian line of defence east of the Dnipro river in Kherson, though the threat of a Ukrainian river crossing was always low,” said Michael Kofman, a military analyst at the Center for Naval Analyses, a Washington-based think-tank. “This disaster benefits nobody, and will affect Russian-occupied territory the most.”

Russia’s military bloggers, who fervently support the war but have criticised the army’s leadership, largely backed the official version of events.

“It’s our left bank that suffers more from the flooding. It doesn’t make sense why we’d do this,” wrote Alexander Kots, a Russian war reporter for pro-Kremlin tabloid Komsomolskaya Pravda.

But some could not help delighting in the difficulties the dam’s collapse created for Ukraine’s counteroffensive in the region.

“I won’t say who blew it up or evaluate it in any way,” said Egor Guzenko, a Russian volunteer fighter and blogger. “But from a tactical point of view, [Ukraine] can forget about an offensive in Kherson.”
Posted by Chromdome35
Fast lane, behind a slow driver
Member since Nov 2010
8181 posts
Posted on 6/6/23 at 9:42 am to
LOL

Video at link
https://twitter.com/maxfras/status/1666079339178500100
quote:

Russia-appointed Kherson oblast governor Saldo, speaking right in front of the flooded streets of Novaya Kakhovka:

"Everything is fine in Novaya Kakhovka, people go about their daily business like any day"

Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
21020 posts
Posted on 6/6/23 at 9:45 am to
The more I think and read, the clearer it becomes that all the short-term military advantage is Russian, because it reduces the front line that Russia needs to defend in Ukraine's offensive. Ukraine trying to bridge the Dnipro near Kherson was a serious threat, and now it's not.

Longer term, though, I think that this is a military advantage for Ukraine, as it totally disrupts Russian defense in the area and creates new opportunities for Ukraine.

Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42746 posts
Posted on 6/6/23 at 9:54 am to
Was that the Cajun Navy lurking in those trees?
Posted by Chromdome35
Fast lane, behind a slow driver
Member since Nov 2010
8181 posts
Posted on 6/6/23 at 9:58 am to
Russian MOD released this footage of a Ka52 destroying Leopard tanks

Video at link
https://twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1666096685112762369
I guess those are the ultra-rare John Deere Combine Leopards.

More
https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1666096408414543875
quote:

#Ukraine:The ????MoD claimed the destruction of Ukrainian Leopard 2 tanks during the recent counter-offensive- hitting a new level of cope.

The vehicles targeted by ATGM from Ka-52 not only don't resemble tanks but are in fact innocent agricultural equipment- a sprayer & combines.


This post was edited on 6/6/23 at 10:00 am
Posted by ned nederlander
Member since Dec 2012
5987 posts
Posted on 6/6/23 at 10:00 am to
quote:

The only real advantage I see from this for Ukraine is in the Geopolitical realm but I don't think that comes close to offsetting the disadvantages.


In the short term I agree. However if this spills into 2024 without a resolution the geopolitical realm becomes critical. The gloves are still somewhat on in terms of what the west is providing to Ukraine. And I think actions like this move the west closer to Ukraine’s position of no territorial concessions.

But in the short term I agree. I generally take this to mean Russia did not think it could adequately defend an attack across the Dnipro and into kherson at the same time it’s defending in the east. To the extent Dnipro represents a separate and distinct theater from the eastern front, this action seems like a Russian attempt to keep this a single front war for the time being.
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42746 posts
Posted on 6/6/23 at 10:06 am to
Russia wants to lengthen the war. They hope the west gives up and leaves Ukraine high and dry. Anything to delay, that’s what Russia wants politically.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
139658 posts
Posted on 6/6/23 at 10:08 am to
quote:

The Ukrainians for the most part left Crimea in and after 2014.
You seem to be addressing the premise from an ethnic perspective. In fact though, Crimeans in 2013 were Ukrainian citizens, aka Ukrainians. Presuming those folks had little or no say in their sudden military occupation, it's surprising you would not take issue with Ukraine then furthering their trauma by cutting off their water supply.

Are you suggesting Ukraine was justified in such actions against its own citizens because of ethnicity?
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
5716 posts
Posted on 6/6/23 at 10:12 am to
quote:

Look at this video taken this morning, it's clear there are only two breaches in the dam. Since that time, another breach has opened.


Thanks for the time sequence observation.
This post was edited on 6/6/23 at 10:14 am
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16084 posts
Posted on 6/6/23 at 10:13 am to
Excerpt from Link at end

quote:

In 1941, the Soviet army blew up the Dnipro HPP dam to stop the advance of German troops. To be more precise, part of it was blown up, 175 metres out of more than 600. As a result of the explosion, a huge hole was formed in the dam, through which water flowed rapidly.


LINK

Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16084 posts
Posted on 6/6/23 at 10:13 am to
Warning from Russian Brigade from last year about blowing the dam up

LINK
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16084 posts
Posted on 6/6/23 at 10:16 am to
Have fun OML's kin
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
21020 posts
Posted on 6/6/23 at 10:25 am to
I keep coming back to the fact that all of the modeling we saw of a dam rupture was done in the fall, when the water level was much, much lower.

With water behind the dam at a 30-year high, the flood damage is going to be much worse than those models showed.

This is where the 40-foot "Defiant" riverine patrol boats made here in Louisiana are going to prove highly valuable.

I really wonder if all of Oleshky will flood, and if Russia can hold on to the settlement. If not, then when the river eventually goes back down, Ukraine might find a crossing to be much easier.
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42746 posts
Posted on 6/6/23 at 10:31 am to
quote:

With water behind the dam at a 30-year high, the flood damage is going to be much worse than those models showed.


It appears those in control wanted the water high so that when they “blew it” there would be greater damage.

I see this as a strategic Russian move. I have no evidence, but it certainly adds up to that.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
21020 posts
Posted on 6/6/23 at 10:35 am to
In other news, the Washington Post has a new story today which severely implicates Ukraine in the Nord Stream explosions.

I'm not going to summarize. Here's a free link.
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16084 posts
Posted on 6/6/23 at 10:42 am to
The story about Ukrainians doing it was debunked months ago. Saturation diving is required at that depth. Certainly quite common in offshore oil/gas arena around the world, as is explosives for severing heavy wall steel pipe. It's almost as common as OML's hyperventilation episodes.
This post was edited on 6/6/23 at 10:46 am
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
21020 posts
Posted on 6/6/23 at 10:43 am to
quote:

The RU MoD claimed the destruction of Ukrainian Leopard 2 tanks during the recent counter-offensive- hitting a new level of cope.

The vehicles targeted by ATGM from Ka-52 not only don't resemble tanks but are in fact innocent agricultural equipment- a sprayer & combines.


Well, now we know how Russia blew up 8 Leopards yesterday.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
21020 posts
Posted on 6/6/23 at 10:45 am to
quote:

The story about Ukrainians doing it was debunked months ago



It was not. There was some contrary evidence presented, but debunked is not the right word.
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16084 posts
Posted on 6/6/23 at 10:47 am to
Having been sort of involved in that world a decade ago, yes it was.
Posted by ticklechain
Forgotten coast
Member since Mar 2018
834 posts
Posted on 6/6/23 at 10:50 am to
Not sure if posted yet, but security camera video of the dam being hit. Definitely a huge explosion. Also video of it being shelled this morning
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