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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 2/22/23 at 2:51 pm to RogerTheShrubber
Posted on 2/22/23 at 2:51 pm to RogerTheShrubber
This post was edited on 2/22/23 at 2:53 pm
1
Posted on 2/22/23 at 2:51 pm to Chromdome35
quote:
In fairness, the Western US.
Unless his edit changes the time period of 150 years Manifest Destiny warring ended in 1948 and the last bit of non-war expansion west was the Gadsden Purchase in 1858.
Posted on 2/22/23 at 2:52 pm to IAmNERD
Yikes
I know a few on here personally so it's not that big a deal.
I know a few on here personally so it's not that big a deal.
This post was edited on 2/22/23 at 2:54 pm
Posted on 2/22/23 at 2:54 pm to philter
quote:
And we did exactly this, breaking the verbal agreement.
Now, do I think gorb should have demanded it in writing? Maybe, he didn't have any bargaining power.. and we knew this. Such is the benefits of winning the cold war.
It's a shitty situation all around.
Russia has been committing all sorts of aggressions in places NATO has jack shite to do with, like Georgia and Chechnya. There's no NATO boogeyman excuse there. It's a dictator trying to resuscitate a third rate empire.
Posted on 2/22/23 at 2:55 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
know a few on here personally so it's not that big a deal
True, but there are anonymous psychos out there.
Hope everything works out for you man.
Posted on 2/22/23 at 2:58 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Man that would be embarrassing
Man that sucks. Having a cancer diagnosis and choosing to spend almost every waking hour of your life arguing on social media. Sheesh.
Posted on 2/22/23 at 2:59 pm to IAmNERD
quote:
True, but there are anonymous psychos out there.
Oh yeah.. I've had psychos from.this site try to interfere with shite. Some people are pretty pathetic.
But small people do all things I suppose.
Posted on 2/22/23 at 3:00 pm to IAmNERD
quote:
Why only point to Republicans who supported the war? Why are you not calling out the Democrats that supported the war as well?
And you speak of hypocrisy?
Fair point, lots of Dems voted for war, bought Bush's bullshite, even helped carry water for it, but they didn't continue defending it for half a decade and well past the point where the excuse of being lied to no longer worked.
But you're deflecting, do better
This post was edited on 2/22/23 at 3:01 pm
Posted on 2/22/23 at 3:01 pm to StormyMcMan
NATO-Russia Founding Act of 1997.
It did not limit the expansion of Nato.
Yeltsin signed it.
End of story.
To achieve the aims of this Act, NATO and Russia will base their relations on a shared commitment to the following principles:
development, on the basis of transparency, of a strong, stable, enduring and equal partnership and of cooperation to strengthen security and stability in the Euro-Atlantic area;
acknowledgement of the vital role that democracy, political pluralism, the rule of law, and respect for human rights and civil liberties and the development of free market economies play in the development of common prosperity and comprehensive security;
refraining from the threat or use of force against each other as well as against any other state, its sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence in any manner inconsistent with the United Nations Charter and with the Declaration of Principles Guiding Relations Between Participating States contained in the Helsinki Final Act;
respect for sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of all states and their inherent right to choose the means to ensure their own security, the inviolability of borders and peoples' right of self-determination as enshrined in the Helsinki Final Act and other OSCE documents;
mutual transparency in creating and implementing defence policy and military doctrines;
prevention of conflicts and settlement of disputes by peaceful means in accordance with UN and OSCE principles;
support, on a case-by-case basis, of peacekeeping operations carried out under the authority of the UN Security Council or the responsibility of the OSCE.
Note the part that says: independence and territorial integrity of all states and their inherent right to choose the means to ensure their own security, the inviolability of borders and peoples' right of self-determination as enshrined in the Helsinki Final Act and other OSCE documents;[/b]
It did not limit the expansion of Nato.
Yeltsin signed it.
End of story.
To achieve the aims of this Act, NATO and Russia will base their relations on a shared commitment to the following principles:
development, on the basis of transparency, of a strong, stable, enduring and equal partnership and of cooperation to strengthen security and stability in the Euro-Atlantic area;
acknowledgement of the vital role that democracy, political pluralism, the rule of law, and respect for human rights and civil liberties and the development of free market economies play in the development of common prosperity and comprehensive security;
refraining from the threat or use of force against each other as well as against any other state, its sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence in any manner inconsistent with the United Nations Charter and with the Declaration of Principles Guiding Relations Between Participating States contained in the Helsinki Final Act;
respect for sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of all states and their inherent right to choose the means to ensure their own security, the inviolability of borders and peoples' right of self-determination as enshrined in the Helsinki Final Act and other OSCE documents;
mutual transparency in creating and implementing defence policy and military doctrines;
prevention of conflicts and settlement of disputes by peaceful means in accordance with UN and OSCE principles;
support, on a case-by-case basis, of peacekeeping operations carried out under the authority of the UN Security Council or the responsibility of the OSCE.
Note the part that says: independence and territorial integrity of all states and their inherent right to choose the means to ensure their own security, the inviolability of borders and peoples' right of self-determination as enshrined in the Helsinki Final Act and other OSCE documents;[/b]
This post was edited on 2/22/23 at 3:03 pm
Posted on 2/22/23 at 3:01 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
Man that sucks. Having a cancer diagnosis and choosing to spend almost every waking hour of your life arguing on social media. Sheesh.
Or live on this site and pretend to be employed, like you do. Thank God for homely chicks with money, eh?
Posted on 2/22/23 at 3:02 pm to Bronc
quote:
But you're deflecting, do better
Calling out your obvious bias and hypocrisy isn't deflecting.
It's calling your bullshite.
Posted on 2/22/23 at 3:06 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Or live on this site and pretend to be employed, like you do. Thank God for homely chicks with money, eh?
Here ya go
Posted on 2/22/23 at 3:06 pm to REG861
quote:
quote:
But we did provoke Russia.
Sure. I will admit this.
I think it is important to note there are different magnitudes of provocation. On one end there is someone coming up, pulling and gun, and shooting your kid in the head. On the other end, there is someone holding their gaze/stare for an extra second or two across the bar.
When someone conflates the second with the first to justify killing someone the potential technical provocation is wholly irrelevant.
Posted on 2/22/23 at 3:09 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
think it is important to note there are different magnitudes of provocation.
I agree with this, but I think you would also agree that we would flip the frick out of Canada and Mexico decided to pursue exclusive relations with Russia and China over us.
Our involvement isn't to save Ukraine, it's to keep a Western friendly ally in the region.
Posted on 2/22/23 at 3:10 pm to Obtuse1
We provoked Russia by supporting a country that wants to be independent. The effrontery.
Posted on 2/22/23 at 3:13 pm to IAmNERD
quote:
Calling out your obvious bias and hypocrisy isn't deflecting.
It's calling your bullshite.
I'm sorry if you are so tribalized that even when someone concedes you have a point you can't stop crying about it, but deflecting via whining about hypocrisy in a post showing how that is such a worthless argument outside of being a parlor trick to defend positions you cant defend on the merits, is, well, quite a real-time solidification to my argument. So thanks, I guess
Posted on 2/22/23 at 3:14 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
We provoked Russia by supporting a country that wants to be independent. The effrontery.
In an insincere manner, I suppose
Posted on 2/22/23 at 3:22 pm to Bronc
There is a political board for this
Posted on 2/22/23 at 3:22 pm to Bronc
quote:
I'm sorry if you are so tribalized that even when someone concedes you have a point you can't stop crying about it
Meh, you would have a point if that's where you stopped and I would have given you a
and we could agree that both sides pulled some hypocritical mental gymnastics...but you just HAD to throw in that deflection bit even after you conceded that you were in fact being hypocritical. So everything after that comment is on you...
Posted on 2/22/23 at 3:25 pm to IAmNERD
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