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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 7/27/22 at 12:27 am to Chromdome35
Posted on 7/27/22 at 12:27 am to Chromdome35
quote:
It has 0 (Zero) to do with Zelinsky, I could not care less what happens to him. I support the Nation of Ukraine.
You would literally suck his weenie
1
Posted on 7/27/22 at 12:36 am to Palmetto98
Thank God Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy and Nixon actually exuedead statesmanship when confronted with Soviet internal struggles.
Carter (belive it or not) and especially Reagan took as far to the soviets as could be done. We did nothing except for the Berlin air lift and lend emotional support to the Hungarians, Czechs and Poles. For that matter e. Germany. We did nothing because it wasn't in our interests to fight a the time.
Carter (belive it or not) and especially Reagan took as far to the soviets as could be done. We did nothing except for the Berlin air lift and lend emotional support to the Hungarians, Czechs and Poles. For that matter e. Germany. We did nothing because it wasn't in our interests to fight a the time.
Posted on 7/27/22 at 12:40 am to Chromdome35
I hope they do well too but they are hardly the aggrieved party. I would have expected the US to invade Mexico had similar issues been present. And we have done so with Canada and Mexico several times each.
If Russia influenced Canada or Mexico half as we do with the Ukraine we'd be back in veracruz.
If we pull off that stunt again. With today's military 2/3 of our planes don't function correctly and can't fly missions today.
If Russia influenced Canada or Mexico half as we do with the Ukraine we'd be back in veracruz.
If we pull off that stunt again. With today's military 2/3 of our planes don't function correctly and can't fly missions today.
Posted on 7/27/22 at 12:40 am to Shreveportolewarskul
quote:
Thank God Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy and Nixon actually exuedead statesmanship when confronted with Soviet internal struggles.
Carter (belive it or not) and especially Reagan took as far to the soviets as could be done. We did nothing except for the Berlin air lift and lend emotional support to the Hungarians, Czechs and Poles. For that matter e. Germany. We did nothing because it wasn't in our interests to fight a the time.
That is all a history lesson we all know (but might differ with some of the verbiage) but what does that have to do with Russia invading a sovereign nation? There hasn't been a Soviet Union for 30 years.
Posted on 7/27/22 at 12:41 am to Shreveportolewarskul
(no message)
This post was edited on 6/12/26 at 11:49 am
Posted on 7/27/22 at 12:54 am to OMLandshark
Kissenger is far more nuanced than you know. He's a Messenmaier (sp?) realist. His behind the scenes may have saved us from wwiii over the Yom Kippur war.
Kissenger isn't the issue rn, except that he currently supports much of your view of the russo-ukrainian war.
Kissenger isn't the issue rn, except that he currently supports much of your view of the russo-ukrainian war.
Posted on 7/27/22 at 12:59 am to OMLandshark
I enjoy 90% of what you say as a libertarian. But Kissenger isn't half the war criminal you suggest. He's a realist and he's on your side right now. It may be by chance, it probably is, but I think you are missing my point.
During the Cold War we negotiated, openly or not through back channels. I don't think the current administration is trying. That concerns me.
And if Kissenger happens to gave placed his shot within yours at the 18th it doesn't mean the "war criminal" is wrong
During the Cold War we negotiated, openly or not through back channels. I don't think the current administration is trying. That concerns me.
And if Kissenger happens to gave placed his shot within yours at the 18th it doesn't mean the "war criminal" is wrong
Posted on 7/27/22 at 1:01 am to OMLandshark
Let me ask you this. If Kissenger is the our greatest war criminal, where does Lincoln rank?
Posted on 7/27/22 at 1:04 am to Shreveportolewarskul
(no message)
This post was edited on 6/12/26 at 11:49 am
Posted on 7/27/22 at 1:06 am to Shreveportolewarskul
(no message)
This post was edited on 6/12/26 at 11:49 am
Posted on 7/27/22 at 1:15 am to OMLandshark
Like you I think the risk of a nuclear escalation to be a high risk rn. I do not control American foreign policy and the only possibility of change is minute. If the GOP retakes the House as appears likely, what would change? Nothing, those 50 or so principled house members might increase to 75 or even 100. So what?
Biden and the neolib/neolib group control 2/3 of our likely 2022 electorate.
The war is on. With that in mind, how may we end this as soon as possible?
Suggesting peace is the way is naive. It's started. I don't like it any as much as you do and think the argument for fighting the Russians by proxy to wither away at their power is farcical.
Yet as a realist that's where we are. I agree with you. Taiwan is far more important but we don't control things. Given the reality of the situation and state of affairs how would you proceed?
I'm on your side. But the die has been cast. How can we stop it from rumbling further off the table?
Biden and the neolib/neolib group control 2/3 of our likely 2022 electorate.
The war is on. With that in mind, how may we end this as soon as possible?
Suggesting peace is the way is naive. It's started. I don't like it any as much as you do and think the argument for fighting the Russians by proxy to wither away at their power is farcical.
Yet as a realist that's where we are. I agree with you. Taiwan is far more important but we don't control things. Given the reality of the situation and state of affairs how would you proceed?
I'm on your side. But the die has been cast. How can we stop it from rumbling further off the table?
Posted on 7/27/22 at 1:21 am to OMLandshark
I'm aware of Hitchens' denefrestration of Kissenger. Problem is with the guy is half the time he is right.
He descalated tension with the Soviets and as a realist explains why our currently policies with Putin are bound to fail.
Even a war criminal is right occasionally.
He descalated tension with the Soviets and as a realist explains why our currently policies with Putin are bound to fail.
Even a war criminal is right occasionally.
Posted on 7/27/22 at 1:27 am to OMLandshark
750,000 deaths over letting the south go an slavery (according to most historians) last at most another 20 years.....that's like 15 million in a current Civil War.
He was both the most most brilliant and evil person in our history and it's hard to come to grips with it still today. Lincoln easily was able to eloquently advocate for mutual slaughter on levels seen exceeded only in the East during Barbarossa.
Just let them go. In 20 to 30 years slavery ends on its own (as it did everywhere else at that time) and we might have 50+ million more good people today
He was both the most most brilliant and evil person in our history and it's hard to come to grips with it still today. Lincoln easily was able to eloquently advocate for mutual slaughter on levels seen exceeded only in the East during Barbarossa.
Just let them go. In 20 to 30 years slavery ends on its own (as it did everywhere else at that time) and we might have 50+ million more good people today
Posted on 7/27/22 at 2:00 am to Shreveportolewarskul
But in Ukraine where are we today? Unfortunately we are all in. If we avoid nuclear conflict against a foe whose one strength over ours are there nukes, then I suppose our leaders have put us in a lose lose situation.
Personally I'd settle for status quo antebellum. The Crimea is lost. It's too easy to defend at its crossings. Think of the neck in GOT separating the north from the south.
Surrender both Donetsk and luhansk to UN peacekeepers. With autonomy eventually given to the region.
Putin won't concede but until our country,yes the USA, starts negotiations then this war will drag in for years.
The whole point of beginning this thread was to suggest that all cold war presidents knew how to negotiate. Today? From 2004 to the present, if not back to 1993, we've lacked diplomacy and have resorted to armed force which uas alienated more than half the planet against us
Personally I'd settle for status quo antebellum. The Crimea is lost. It's too easy to defend at its crossings. Think of the neck in GOT separating the north from the south.
Surrender both Donetsk and luhansk to UN peacekeepers. With autonomy eventually given to the region.
Putin won't concede but until our country,yes the USA, starts negotiations then this war will drag in for years.
The whole point of beginning this thread was to suggest that all cold war presidents knew how to negotiate. Today? From 2004 to the present, if not back to 1993, we've lacked diplomacy and have resorted to armed force which uas alienated more than half the planet against us
Posted on 7/27/22 at 2:12 am to Shreveportolewarskul
quote:
Like you I think the risk of a nuclear escalation to be a high risk rn.
Stop with the junior high girl histrionics. I'm against any involvement in Ukraine, but it damned sure isn't because I'm fearful of nuclear escalation.
Putin, or no one in his inner circle, is getting Moscow and St. Petersburg incinerated because their Ukrainian offensive failed. The fat cats around him have way too much to lose and would retire him with a bullet to the dome if they thought he was serious.
Posted on 7/27/22 at 2:31 am to SoFla Tideroller
You're probably correct. Strategically. But Soviet military doctrine was to use tactical nukes to knock out a path through the Fulda gap.
I am not suggesting we cave in due to Putin's or Lavrov's threats. But they can't be ignored completely. Let's not have to impose article 5.
To deter legit Russian threats however would mean pushing out ACBM fleet into Europe and put everyone else on high gear. The stakes are too high to flinch.
I want to end this madness though. Generally in western history in a stalemate that has been achievable. Not so sure right now.
But no im not suggesting our actions be dictated by threats of nuclear reprisal. On the other hand further escalation on our part must be considered against the risk of a desperate Russian tactical response.
I am not suggesting we cave in due to Putin's or Lavrov's threats. But they can't be ignored completely. Let's not have to impose article 5.
To deter legit Russian threats however would mean pushing out ACBM fleet into Europe and put everyone else on high gear. The stakes are too high to flinch.
I want to end this madness though. Generally in western history in a stalemate that has been achievable. Not so sure right now.
But no im not suggesting our actions be dictated by threats of nuclear reprisal. On the other hand further escalation on our part must be considered against the risk of a desperate Russian tactical response.
Posted on 7/27/22 at 2:37 am to SoFla Tideroller
Upon further reflection of you don't fear a nuclear escalation then let's arm the crooks in the Ukraine and send our own bodies in.
If you fear no nuclear reprisals then let's obliterate them.
We're not doing this because if the Biden administration has done one right thing in 2 years it has been to at least not to send the Big Red One into St. Petersburg
If you fear no nuclear reprisals then let's obliterate them.
We're not doing this because if the Biden administration has done one right thing in 2 years it has been to at least not to send the Big Red One into St. Petersburg
Posted on 7/27/22 at 4:00 am to cypher
quote:Correct. This twitter site has the video of both the attack last night and the results the next morning.
Reportedly, we have another heavy Ukrainian strike upon the Antonivsky Bridge, the key Russian supply line in occupied Kherson.
Before this, heavy traffic was unable to use the bridge. Now it seems that the traffic will be limited to bicycles and skateboards.
Posted on 7/27/22 at 5:34 am to Coeur du Tigre
quote:
Now it seems that the traffic will be limited to bicycles and skateboards.
The holes have definitely gotten larger.
Posted on 7/27/22 at 5:36 am to Coeur du Tigre
Appreciate the war report in spite of the political sewage that continues to contaminate the OT.
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