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Started By
Message
re: Larry English, owner of the house says no robbery committed.
Posted on 5/13/20 at 7:23 am to Barstools
Posted on 5/13/20 at 7:23 am to Barstools
quote:
He was not jogging up until the time he tried to run from the neighbors then run from the vigilantes. In work boots, no less. The guy was 100% up to no good.
Look, you’re obviously not very intelligent if you can’t grasp the concept that legally, none of that matters. But try to take a step back and ask yourself—as an American citizen—who are you comfortable with giving the authority to decide what “up to no good” means?
And are you then comfortable with them judging your actions at any one time to determine if those actions conform to their interpretation of “up to no good?” And if they don’t meet their definition of “up to no good,” are you then comfortable with them taking away your personal freedom by detaining you?
The framers of the Constitution were so concerned with giving the government that authority that they put it in the Bill of Rights as the 4th Amendment, preventing illegal search and seizure. But you are comfortable with giving every swinging Bubba and Joe Bob the authority to do it to you? To immediately judge your actions and be able take away your personal liberty by detaining you?
This post was edited on 5/13/20 at 7:35 am
1
Posted on 5/13/20 at 7:31 am to Hot Carl
quote:
The framers of the Constitution were so concerned with giving the government that authority that they put it in the Bill of Rights as the 4th Amendment, preventing illegal search and seizure.
Not entering into the fray regarding this incident. Just wanted to comment that you need to retake Con Law. Your interpretation of the framers intent is way off. They didn’t write the 4th because they wanted to give that authority to the government. They wrote the 4th to restrict the governments authorities. Citizens arrest was around when they wrote the Constitution and they left it alone because it was accepted. “As an American”, we should be perfectly fine with a citizen being able to detain a law breaker for the authorities. No citizen should turn a blind eye and say “that’s the governments job.” A free society is messy and burdensome but it is the price we pay.
Posted on 5/13/20 at 8:05 am to bigpetedatiga
quote:
Lastly can we all agree that he was not committing any felonies that night?
I have no dog in this fight, have never watched the video and frankly don't know what's going on.
But I do know this...entering a dwelling (even one under construction) without consent IS a felony in Georgia right off the bat.
Posted on 5/13/20 at 8:06 am to jbgleason
quote:
Not entering into the fray regarding this incident. Just wanted to comment that you need to retake Con Law.
Not an attorney, but do play one on here occasionally.
quote:
Your interpretation of the framers intent is way off. They didn’t write the 4th because they wanted to give that authority to the government. They wrote the 4th to restrict the governments authorities.
Of course. Perhaps I did a poor job of making my point. My point was that the framers were so concerned with protecting our personal liberties that they felt the need to restrict the rights of the government with the 4th. I very well may be wrong in thinking that they intended for those restrictions to extend to civilians basically acting on behalf of the state/government, but my bigger point is their focus on protecting our personal liberties in general, regardless of who may be in the position to take them away.
quote:
As an American”, we should be perfectly fine with a citizen being able to detain a law breaker for the authorities
I don’t know about “perfectly fine.” Citizen’s arrest has to be legal in certain situations—if I come and find someone raping my wife or about to kidnap my children—I have to be protected to hold them at gunpoint until the police arrive. Or if I enter a convenience store being robbed at and I manage to somehow disarm and detain the robber, the law has to protect me there. But I think the standard for a citizen’s arrest should be extremely clear and high. The state of Georgia agrees with me, setting that standard as being “in the presence of” or “having immediate knowledge of” a “felony” being committed.
And quite frankly, again, you may be right in that I mis-interpreted or mis-used the intent of the 4th and may have hurt my argument by invoking the framers.
Posted on 5/13/20 at 8:18 am to theunknownknight
quote:
But I do know this...entering a dwelling (even one under construction) without consent IS a felony in Georgia right off the ba
You're missing an element and a house under construction is not necessarily a dwelling.
Posted on 5/13/20 at 8:39 am to Athis
quote:
.I hope they track down these people and arrest them...
Not a chance in hell that will happen.
Posted on 5/13/20 at 8:41 am to bigpetedatiga
I read one of the threads on here about this and there were people defending the shooter (which I expected because of the number of dumbasses on the board).
But these are the questions I had.
- So did the dad or son call the cops when they seen him near or in the new construction site?
- If they did, what was the reason they decided to go follow him with guns out ready to shoot?
- There was a gunshot before there was a wrestle for the gun. Was he a threat to them at any point?
- People were saying it was his fault because he was trying to grab the gun, but he had been shot at and they were trying to barricade him in. A shot went off. At that point he had to fear for his life. He had a decision to make. If he runs, based on their actions, they were coming after him. They shot once so if he stops who is to say they will not shoot again? (remember, this is all within a few seconds).
to try to get the gun away from the guy..
So considering those two options, what options does he have?
Also, what was in or around the house that was of value that someone would risk going steal during the day? There sure wasn't anything so valuable that those two clowns needed to go after him with their guns instead of letting the police do their job.. The ole man was a former cop.. If he still wanted to act like a police he shouldn't have retired.
But these are the questions I had.
- So did the dad or son call the cops when they seen him near or in the new construction site?
- If they did, what was the reason they decided to go follow him with guns out ready to shoot?
- There was a gunshot before there was a wrestle for the gun. Was he a threat to them at any point?
- People were saying it was his fault because he was trying to grab the gun, but he had been shot at and they were trying to barricade him in. A shot went off. At that point he had to fear for his life. He had a decision to make. If he runs, based on their actions, they were coming after him. They shot once so if he stops who is to say they will not shoot again? (remember, this is all within a few seconds).
to try to get the gun away from the guy..
So considering those two options, what options does he have?
Also, what was in or around the house that was of value that someone would risk going steal during the day? There sure wasn't anything so valuable that those two clowns needed to go after him with their guns instead of letting the police do their job.. The ole man was a former cop.. If he still wanted to act like a police he shouldn't have retired.
Posted on 5/13/20 at 8:55 am to theunknownknight
quote:
But I do know this...entering a dwelling (even one under construction) without consent IS a felony in Georgia right off the bat.
On the police report, the crimes listed are homicide and criminal trespass. Trespassing is like me walking through your yard.
Posted on 5/13/20 at 9:04 am to Red Stick Tigress
quote:
Wrong. Former cop is just looking for 2 minutes of fame. He cites "facts" that aren't facts.
The former cop is wrong when he state that the McMichaels saw Arbery entering and leaving the house. The cop is also wrong in his description of the house.
Posted on 5/13/20 at 9:06 am to OweO
quote:
But these are the questions I had.
- So did the dad or son call the cops when they seen him near or in the new construction site?
- If they did, what was the reason they decided to go follow him with guns out ready to shoot?
- There was a gunshot before there was a wrestle for the gun. Was he a threat to them at any point?
911 was called when McMichael Sr. saw him running past his house. Thought he resembled someone who had burglarized somewhere else in the neighborhood.
Citizens' arrest.
You'd have to ask McMichaels. Sr. said they went to grab their guns before pursuit.
This post was edited on 5/13/20 at 9:07 am
Posted on 5/13/20 at 9:08 am to Hot Carl
The McMichaels said they intended to stop the guy and talk to him.
They didn’t say stop the guy and detain him. It’s as if they wanted to question him to determine if he was in fact the burglar who had been active in the neighborhood. The thing about citizen’s arrest is not in the incident report. Where is that coming from?
They didn’t say stop the guy and detain him. It’s as if they wanted to question him to determine if he was in fact the burglar who had been active in the neighborhood. The thing about citizen’s arrest is not in the incident report. Where is that coming from?
Posted on 5/13/20 at 9:16 am to doubleb
The citizen’s arrest thing popped up from Barnhill, the 2nd DA.
It’s not in the police report, but it’s their only shot at escaping and aggravated assault conviction (and thus felony murder) so they will have to go with it. It’s all they have.
It’s not in the police report, but it’s their only shot at escaping and aggravated assault conviction (and thus felony murder) so they will have to go with it. It’s all they have.
This post was edited on 5/13/20 at 9:18 am
Posted on 5/13/20 at 9:20 am to S
quote:
Citizens arrest needs to be done away with
So, if you see a man violently attacking and raping a woman, you're just going to idly stand by?
Posted on 5/13/20 at 9:22 am to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
The citizen’s arrest thing popped up from Barnhill, the 2nd DA.
It’s not in the police report, but it’s their only shot at escaping and aggravated assault conviction (and thus felony murder) so they will have to go with it. It’s all they have.
Understood.
McMichael’s initial comments are going to burn them.
Where did the idea that the home owner saw Arbery in the house and called the cops? Where did the idea that the McMichaels knew Arbery was in the house? In other words, what did the McMichaels know immediately before Arbery ran passed their house?
Posted on 5/13/20 at 9:25 am to doubleb
To our knowledge they knew nothing about AA being in the house on the day of the incident.
Based on the evidence that is available, anyone saying that the mcmichaels had knowledge of AA trespassing / burglarizing etc on the day of the incident is either ignorant of the facts or lying.
Based on the evidence that is available, anyone saying that the mcmichaels had knowledge of AA trespassing / burglarizing etc on the day of the incident is either ignorant of the facts or lying.
Posted on 5/13/20 at 9:25 am to doubleb
quote:
The thing about citizen’s arrest is not in the incident report. Where is that coming from?
The second DA sent a letter to the police department both informing them of his recusal and stating the reasons he believed charges should not be brought. A key point in this letter was that he believed the McMichaels were performing a legal citizen’s arrest.
Posted on 5/13/20 at 9:27 am to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
So, if you see a man violently attacking and raping a woman, you're just going to idly stand by?
You come to her aid. You stop the man, you may or may not try to detain him. The goal is to get the man safely away from the woman any way you can. Shoot him, hit him with a hammer, and do whatever it takes.
FWIW, the state doesn’t need a citizen’s arrest law for you yo do that. MHO
Posted on 5/13/20 at 9:29 am to lostinbr
quote:
The second DA sent a letter to the police department both informing them of his recusal and stating the reasons he believed charges should not be brought. A key point in this letter was that he believed the McMichaels were performing a legal citizen’s arrest.
So the second DA tried to provide the McMichaels with a defense or he gathered that ftom the McMichael’s attorney? Thxs
Posted on 5/13/20 at 9:32 am to OweO
quote:
People were saying it was his fault because he was trying to grab the gun, but he had been shot at and they were trying to barricade him in
That's not very accurate. The first shot happened at about the time Arbery made physical contact with McMichael Jr. Watch the video again.
quote:
Also, what was in or around the house that was of value that someone would risk going steal during the day? There sure wasn't anything so valuable that those two clowns needed to go after him with their guns instead of letting the police do their job..
You assume that the McMichaels knew nothing of value was in the place. I'm not saying that they should have chased him down.
Posted on 5/13/20 at 9:36 am to SUB
quote:
You assume that the McMichaels knew nothing of value was in the place. I'm not saying that they should have chased him down.
How did they know Arbery had been in the house that day?
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