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Started By
Message
1
Posted on 11/3/21 at 1:13 pm to tigerinthebueche
quote:Funny it takes someone who you consider to be a form of idiot to point out multiple glaring and obvious falsehoods.
It took 12 posts before a Covidiot showed up and tried to dispute the story.
This shite must be waning.
Posted on 11/3/21 at 1:15 pm to ell_13
You are telling me that my 400 pound senior citizen uncle died of natural causes? bullshite sir.
Posted on 11/3/21 at 1:18 pm to adp
Try this then done on Colorado;
LINK
"During our visit to Colorado, the state’s total Covid-related death tally was 13,845. Separating out the deaths not directly caused by Covid cuts that number by about half with the rest dying “among” or “with” Covid — not because of it."
LINK
"During our visit to Colorado, the state’s total Covid-related death tally was 13,845. Separating out the deaths not directly caused by Covid cuts that number by about half with the rest dying “among” or “with” Covid — not because of it."
This post was edited on 11/3/21 at 1:20 pm
Posted on 11/3/21 at 1:19 pm to Korkstand
Lock it all down Kork. Keep us safe baby.
Posted on 11/3/21 at 1:19 pm to ell_13
Without reading it, I bet there's people in this thread that desperately do not want this to be true
... And while they won't admit it, it's because the idea that the almighty benevolent government agencies would lie to them is staggeringly terrifyig.
... And while they won't admit it, it's because the idea that the almighty benevolent government agencies would lie to them is staggeringly terrifyig.
Posted on 11/3/21 at 1:22 pm to ell_13
This whole "with and "from" argument makes no sense to me. If a person was alive prior to being infected with COVID, and subsequently died, then they died from catching COVID. Are there a number of risk factors, co-morbidities, and other parts of the equation that cause wildly different outcomes among all the people that catch it? Of course there are. But the reality is if they didn't get sick, they would almost assuredly still be alive in the same time period they were sick.
If a 30 year old triathlete and an 85 year old diabetic grandma both get cancer, people don't say the young guy "died from cancer" and the old lady "died with cancer". Why the need to treat this any differently?
I realize this all a reaction to the overbearing public response to COVID, and the flat out failure by all levels of government to properly handle the last couple of years. From my example above, the 30 year old and the 85 year old have a drastically different risk profile for COVID, and should never have been treated equally in this equation, yet here we are. But that doesn't mean the virus hasn't killed large numbers of people
If a 30 year old triathlete and an 85 year old diabetic grandma both get cancer, people don't say the young guy "died from cancer" and the old lady "died with cancer". Why the need to treat this any differently?
I realize this all a reaction to the overbearing public response to COVID, and the flat out failure by all levels of government to properly handle the last couple of years. From my example above, the 30 year old and the 85 year old have a drastically different risk profile for COVID, and should never have been treated equally in this equation, yet here we are. But that doesn't mean the virus hasn't killed large numbers of people
Posted on 11/3/21 at 1:30 pm to OldManRiver
quote:
This whole "with and "from" argument makes no sense to me. If a person was alive prior to being infected with COVID, and subsequently died, then they died from catching COVID. Are there a number of risk factors, co-morbidities, and other parts of the equation that cause wildly different outcomes among all the people that catch it?
I completely understand the point. However, it is this distinction that questions why everyone was told to lock down, or limited in travel, etc. why wouldn’t you simply pass this information on to the people with other issues and thus are at a greater risk?
Kork, you have yet to claim a side or opinion in this thread. What is the right way to go about this whole situation?
I personally see this very thread as typical as to the best way to handle this. We clan all agree that there are very few numbers that are free from spin or alternative motives. Without solid information or knowledge, why the drastic measures and mandates as attempting to be forced by government?
Posted on 11/3/21 at 1:33 pm to ell_13
What is the difference in clinical terms? I'm having a difficult time differentiating between this 'with/from' distinction if the sequelae of COVID played a part in the death. We really don't seem to make that distinction with anything else.
Posted on 11/3/21 at 1:35 pm to Korkstand
quote:
The difference is the high number is an attempt at accuracy, while the low number is an attempt at deception. Honesty is always better, and policy should be shaped from there. Shame so many think it's ok to lie in order to gain support for their views.
The irony and complete lack of self-awareness in this statement is just flat out amazing.
But also to be expected at this point from people that voted in support of killing 13 marines in Afghanistan and lying about drone striking 7 kids in a truck.
Posted on 11/3/21 at 1:36 pm to Screaming Viking
quote:
I completely understand the point. However, it is this distinction that questions why everyone was told to lock down, or limited in travel, etc. why wouldn’t you simply pass this information on to the people with other issues and thus are at a greater risk?
Because people are terrible at self-assessment of risk, especially because we've allowed ourselves to fall into the belief that elevated BMI numbers aren't relevant to overall health. The US especially has a massive population of overweight people who aren't clinically obese, but far heavier than they should be based on BMI. I've seen and heard from people directly that they didn't consider themselves at risk when they were in fact part of the higher risk strata. Given that, how is this distinction meaningful at all, given that with other lower respiratory tract infections, we don't make the same distinctions?
Posted on 11/3/21 at 1:37 pm to tigerinthebueche
quote:Again, I am opposed to lockdowns. Amazing that so few have this view without lying to themselves and others about reality.
Lock it all down Kork. Keep us safe baby.
Posted on 11/3/21 at 1:41 pm to Screaming Viking
quote:I've stated my opinion several times, and that is we should be honest in our assessments and reporting and discuss policy from there. I've also stated my stance on the majority of lockdown policies, to which I am opposed.
Kork, you have yet to claim a side or opinion in this thread. What is the right way to go about this whole situation?
Been saying the same for a year and a half.
Posted on 11/3/21 at 1:43 pm to Open Your Eyes
quote:
The irony and complete lack of self-awareness in this statement is just flat out amazing.
quote:Oh, it's you. Still lying, I see.
But also to be expected at this point from people that voted in support of killing 13 marines in Afghanistan and lying about drone striking 7 kids in a truck.
Posted on 11/3/21 at 1:48 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Oh, it's you. Still lying, I see.
It is literally the least surprising thing possible at this point that a person like you that supports all the things that have happened and continue to happen in Afghanistan is angered by data that shows covid is nowhere near as bad as you and the people you vote for would have people believe.
Posted on 11/3/21 at 1:57 pm to Open Your Eyes
It is even less surprising that you still live in your own little world where you think repeating lies over and over will make them true, all the while saying absolutely nothing of substance nor contributing to the discussion at all. Your mental capacity would count as a covid co-morbidity.
Posted on 11/3/21 at 2:45 pm to ell_13
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Posted on 11/3/21 at 3:07 pm to OldManRiver
quote:I will give you an example. A 75 year old woman dies in her sleep. The medical examiner said it was natural causes, meaning, she got old and her heart stopped beating. Upon further testing, it turns out she tested positive for covid, but had no covid symptoms. So yes, she died with covid, but she died from a heart a attack, which was not influenced at all by covid. In March 2020 the WHO stated that 80% of all people who get covid will have mild flu-like symptoms, or no symptoms at all, and recover in a few days on their own without medical attention. However - many of those people have other ailments, and died of those. Covid did not cause their death, even though they tested positive for it.
This whole "with and "from" argument makes no sense to me. If a person was alive prior to being infected with COVID, and subsequently died, then they died from catching COVID.
So who dies from covid? A healthy person gets sick (fever, cough, shortness of breath) and goes to the doctor. They test positive for Covid. Over the next few days they get worse, and are admitted to the hospital. They are put on a ventilator, and subsequently die. That is someone who died of Covid. The number of people who died this way is a small fraction of the number of "covid deaths" reported in the news.
quote:If one of them died in a car accident, or from a heart attack, or pneumonia then yes they would have died with cancer, not of cancer, especially if the cancer had not been diagnosed until an autopsy was done.
If a 30 year old triathlete and an 85 year old diabetic grandma both get cancer, people don't say the young guy "died from cancer" and the old lady "died with cancer".
This post was edited on 11/3/21 at 3:15 pm
Posted on 11/3/21 at 3:19 pm to Lou
quote:The problem for you is that no matter how many little stories you can come up with, the number of people who died vs the number expected in a "normal" year is different by an amount very close to the number of reported covid deaths. In other words, you need to uncover the reason that heart attacks, cancer, stroke, etc went up to account for the excess deaths. Or you can realize that you're a knucklehead and there's only one explanation for it.
So who dies from Covid? A healthy person gets sick (fever, cough, shortness of breath) and goes to the doctor. They test positive for Covid. Over the next few days they get worse, and are admitted to the hospital. They are put on a ventilator, and subsequently die. That is someone who died of Covid. The number of people who died this way is a small fraction of the number of "covid deaths" reported in the news.
Posted on 11/3/21 at 3:19 pm to OldManRiver
quote:
This whole "with and "from" argument makes no sense to me.
I mean, it is pretty simple to understand. When the entire premise around the need for all the crap that has been done over the last two years is based on the "with" distinction and how much deadlier Covid is, when you are comparing to ones measured more closely to the "from" distinction, you are being purposefully dishonest. The intent behind your dishonesty is up for debate.
quote:
But the reality is if they didn't get sick, they would almost assuredly still be alive in the same time period they were sick.
Conjecture.
quote:
But that doesn't mean the virus hasn't killed large numbers of people
A. Nobody is arguing this.
B. The Virus has been a factor in the death of a large number of people. How much more or less than other respiratory viruses in a given year? We don't know because of the whole "with and from" argument that you don't understand.
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