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re: Is this how atheists think Christianity started?
Posted on 3/29/26 at 10:26 am to UFFan
Posted on 3/29/26 at 10:26 am to UFFan
quote:
But it presumably began in part because Paul had some delusions.
Christianity pre-existed Paul's conversion.
quote:
"For I handed on to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures; that he was buried; that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures; that he appeared to Cephas, then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at once, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. After that he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. Last of all, as to one born abnormally, he appeared to me." - Paul of Tarsus, 53 AD
Even the skeptical scholar Bart Ehrman has conceded that this belief can be traced back to within a few years of Jesus's crucifixion.
Posted on 3/29/26 at 10:26 am to TulsaSooner78
quote:
cannot speak for all atheists. I'm sure there are some who do fit your description.
It's a stereotype. There's a lot of truth to it but it doesn't apply to everyone. At least over half of the people who have told me they're "athiests" do fit this stereotype. They're generally chronically online and underemployed types. Maybe it's because they're more vocal about it that it seems like that? I'm not sure, but it's definitely a stereotype for a reason.
Posted on 3/29/26 at 10:26 am to Mike da Tigah
No.
Most atheists don't waste time thinking about how Christianity started. It's a religion. They're all attempts at control. No one cares how they started.
Most atheists don't waste time thinking about how Christianity started. It's a religion. They're all attempts at control. No one cares how they started.
Posted on 3/29/26 at 10:29 am to Defenseiskey
quote:
Athena are less than 4% of this country.
quote:
It's probably more
The vast majority of people in American that I often see Christians referring to as Athiests are versions of Agnostic, most who wouldn't even refer to themselves as Agnostic.
Posted on 3/29/26 at 10:33 am to Mike da Tigah
I’m a hardcore Trump conservative and an atheist. Religion or Christianity doesn’t cross my mind anymore after converting 20 years ago. I have no issue with religion, to each their own.
Posted on 3/29/26 at 10:33 am to TulsaSooner78
quote:
It isn't unknowingly. It is intentional.
I mean unknowingly as in they won’t acknowledge it… I know plenty (including my brother) that still out of habit I guess observe holidays, speak in reference of things that would only matter to religious people, quote the bible, etc. I’ve always felt it’s more of a problem with the authorities of religion more than not believing in God with most atheists
Posted on 3/29/26 at 10:39 am to Mike da Tigah
To come back to the OP, while I certainly don't attempt to speak for all atheists, my perception of the mainline atheist position re: the assertions in the skit are:
1. People die for lies all the time. If Mohammad had been killed early on during his religious expansion phase, no non-Muslims would be citing that as evidence that his beliefs/assertions were factually correct.
2. There is little to no non-Biblical historical evidence for the "post-resurrection" lives of the overwhelming majority of the apostles. Further, the Biblical renditions were written decades after the alleged events, starting with the Gospels on down. The ones that were relatively contemporaneous were letters sent within the church that would obviously have ulterior motives. And to cap it off, the first major Christian evangelist, Saul/Paul would have no claim to standing around the fire in that skit to begin with.
Frankly, if one looks at the Gospels critically, the apostles were pathetically weak. If I spent years following a man around who I, literally and first hand, witnessed perform actual god-honest miracles, including raising a man from the fricking dead and who had told me to my face that following him was the only path to eternal salvation, the idea that I would immediately deny him/hide after he was taken by authorities almost defies logic. The way they are heroically described post-Gospel basically reads like fanfiction, to say nothing of the Gospel fanfiction/hit piece that is John, written what, half a century later, taking absurd swipes at Thomas for what was arguably doctrinal reasons.
1. People die for lies all the time. If Mohammad had been killed early on during his religious expansion phase, no non-Muslims would be citing that as evidence that his beliefs/assertions were factually correct.
2. There is little to no non-Biblical historical evidence for the "post-resurrection" lives of the overwhelming majority of the apostles. Further, the Biblical renditions were written decades after the alleged events, starting with the Gospels on down. The ones that were relatively contemporaneous were letters sent within the church that would obviously have ulterior motives. And to cap it off, the first major Christian evangelist, Saul/Paul would have no claim to standing around the fire in that skit to begin with.
Frankly, if one looks at the Gospels critically, the apostles were pathetically weak. If I spent years following a man around who I, literally and first hand, witnessed perform actual god-honest miracles, including raising a man from the fricking dead and who had told me to my face that following him was the only path to eternal salvation, the idea that I would immediately deny him/hide after he was taken by authorities almost defies logic. The way they are heroically described post-Gospel basically reads like fanfiction, to say nothing of the Gospel fanfiction/hit piece that is John, written what, half a century later, taking absurd swipes at Thomas for what was arguably doctrinal reasons.
Posted on 3/29/26 at 10:43 am to UFFan
quote:
But it presumably began in part because Paul had some delusions.
Christianity began before Paul, he was a convert.
I find most people that aren’t Christians aren’t very knowledgeable about it, sadly the same can be said about a lot of those who claim to be Christians. A lot of what I hear is parroting of incorrect statements. The biggest one is that the Bible was altered by monks because the same copy was copied again and again over thousands of years. Never mind all the copies not in English and copies of the books in the original languages of Hebrew and Greek. They aren’t aware that a Strong’s Concordance can be used to see the original words used and their meaning.
Posted on 3/29/26 at 10:47 am to Joshjrn
quote:Seems like there is a lesson in that story that Jesus wanted Peter to learn.
If I spent years following a man around who I, literally and first hand, witnessed perform actual god-honest miracles, including raising a man from the fricking dead and who had told me to my face that following him was the only path to eternal salvation, the idea that I would immediately deny him/hide after he was taken by authorities almost defies logic.
And Peter learned it.
He became the most fearless and successful evangelist in Israel
Posted on 3/29/26 at 10:47 am to Mike da Tigah
Christianity started because a man claiming to forgive sins raised from the dead. If Jesus would’ve been crucified without resurrection, that would’ve been the end of it. There were many claiming to be prophets around that time, but their movements died when they died.
Posted on 3/29/26 at 10:50 am to PotatoChip
I’m Christian but also a realist .im spiritual and it helps my life but I don’t hold onto every word of a book from 2000 years ago that wasn’t even written down for 40 years and was just word of mouth and people that never even knew him
It’s crazy how people swear by every word yet distance from all the bad and demented stuff in it
It’s crazy how people swear by every word yet distance from all the bad and demented stuff in it
Posted on 3/29/26 at 10:50 am to Joshjrn
quote:
If I spent years following a man around who I, literally and first hand, witnessed perform actual god-honest miracles, including raising a man from the fricking dead and who had told me to my face that following him was the only path to eternal salvation, the idea that I would immediately deny him/hide after he was taken by authorities almost defies logic.
Humans fear death and detention… can you right now say you believe in some so much you would die or risk prison for it???
Posted on 3/29/26 at 10:54 am to lepdagod
quote:
can you right now say you believe in some so much you would die or risk prison for it???
If I saw a god on Earth raise a man from the dead? Uh, yeah.
Silly question.
Posted on 3/29/26 at 10:54 am to Roaad
quote:
Seems like there is a lesson in that story that Jesus wanted Peter to learn. And Peter learned it. He became the most fearless and successful evangelist in Israel
From a moral allegorical narrative perspective, sure. But does that really read like a human being to you? People blow themselves up for Islam damned near every day based on zero tangible evidence that their god knows they exist. Yet Peter, who allegedly had overwhelming first hand evidence of the divinity of Jesus, cowered like a child at the first hint of adversity. Is that how you would expect most people to act in his position after having his experience? Is that how you believe you would act in his position after having his experience?
Posted on 3/29/26 at 11:00 am to lepdagod
quote:
Humans fear death and detention… can you right now say you believe in some so much you would die or risk prison for it???
Yes, there are absolutely things I believe in that I would be willing to be arrested and/or die for.
But as Slo alluded to, the situation of the apostles in the Gospel is this ratcheted up to 11. Again, if I spent years seeing actual fricking miracles while being told by said miracle worker that if I don't follow him to the letter, I face eternal damnation, on what fricking planet would it be rational behavior to deny him at the very first fricking opportunity? Hell, to deny him to random frickers who aren't even authority figures. Any rational person would be screaming "the good news" from the fricking rooftops.
Instead, they hid like cowards.
As I asked Road, if you had followed Jesus around for years and seen miracle after miracle, is that how you think you would have acted?
Posted on 3/29/26 at 11:02 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
If I saw a god on Earth raise a man from the dead? Uh, yeah.
Would you though???… you know it’s people who exist right now that people claim they’ve witnessed bring the dead back
Posted on 3/29/26 at 11:03 am to lepdagod
quote:
Would you though???… you know it’s people who exist right now that people claim they’ve witnessed bring the dead back
Are you saying that the apostles thought Jesus was a fraud until after his resurrection?
Posted on 3/29/26 at 11:04 am to lepdagod
quote:
Would you though?
Yes
That was only one miracle, too.
Feeding thousands with a couple loaves of bread and a couple fish would probably have sold it to me even stronger.
Posted on 3/29/26 at 11:08 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Yes
That was only one miracle, too.
Feeding thousands with a couple loaves of bread and a couple fish would probably have sold it to me even stronger.
Per stupid AI, here's your list of miracles in the Gospels that the apostles witnessed firsthand:
AI Overview
Apostles witnessed numerous miracles in the Gospels, primarily
Jesus's healings, exorcisms, nature miracles, and resurrections. Key witnessed miracles included turning water into wine, feeding thousands, walking on water, calming storms, healing Peter's mother-in-law, raising Lazarus and Jairus's daughter, and the miraculous catches of fish.
Miracles in the Gospels Witnessed by Apostles
Healing Peter's Mother-in-Law: Jesus healed her fever, allowing her to serve them immediately (Matthew 8:14-15).
Calming the Storm: Jesus calmed a chaotic storm while with his disciples in a boat (Matthew 8:22–25).
Walking on Water: Jesus walked on water, and Peter temporarily did as well (Matthew 14:22-33).
Feeding the Multitudes: Feeding 5,000 and 4,000, which the disciples directly helped distribute.
Raising Lazarus/Jairus's Daughter: Major resurrection miracles witnessed by close apostles (John 11, Mark 5).
Turning Water to Wine: The first miracle at Cana (John 2:1-11).
Miraculous Catches of Fish: Occurred early in ministry and after the resurrection (Luke 5:1-11; John 21:1-14).
Healing the Centurion's Servant: Jesus healed a servant from a distance.
Exorcisms: Frequently witnessed, such as the healing of a man with an unclean spirit (Mark 1:21-27).
Healing the Servant's Ear: Jesus healed the high priest's servant's ear in Gethsemane (Luke 22:50-51).
Posted on 3/29/26 at 11:08 am to Joshjrn
quote:
if you had followed Jesus around for years and seen miracle after miracle, is that how you think you would have acted?
I would think I’ll be braver than the apostles in that situation… but none of us know what we’ll do in a situation we’re you could save your life with a worded denial… I mean would Jesus really be against you doing as such ??
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