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re: Infectious Disease Specialist: "This is the beginning of the end of the pandemic"
Posted on 4/2/20 at 2:29 pm to Darth_Vader
Posted on 4/2/20 at 2:29 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
Who said they came up with it? At this point I’m surprised they’ve not burned down the Capital building and blamed Trump for starting the fire.
Does it make it alright with you if they’re not the ones who first came up with the practice?
No surpise here, the point flew right over your head.
1
Posted on 4/2/20 at 2:30 pm to EarlyCuyler3
quote:
Actual doctors say it's all anecdotal. But then they're actually working and not on tv giving interviews
Dr. Smith is an actual doctor who wants to inform the public that this treatment is working in the outpatient setting... At what number would enough evidence satisfy you? 1000 patients? 1,000,000 patients? How long do you want to test this? 1 year? After the vaccine is made in the fall of 2021?
I'm just wondering what your end game is here? Do you really want people to continue to die while all we do is fiddle with our thumbs?
This post was edited on 4/2/20 at 2:31 pm
Posted on 4/2/20 at 2:30 pm to OKtiger
quote:
I'm getting every chance I get to spread the credible information provided by actual doctors and researchers which shows evidence that these drugs work.
Link me the study showing that this works in COVID patients.
quote:
they are highly effective at preventing hospitalizations hence "flattening the curve." Evidence is already out there.
Link me the study that shows these meds prevent hospitalizations and flatten the curve.
quote:
I am starting these threads so idiots like you can't claim, "well there's not enough evidence to roll this out."
If you want to fight these so called “idiots” you might want to start by showing the evidence you say purportedly exists.
If you continue to peddle non evidence based medicine when you get into practice you are going to eventually get a bad malpractice suit coming your way.
Posted on 4/2/20 at 2:32 pm to Odysseus32
quote:
CNN, Yahoo, google news
You don’t think Fox is credible but these “news” organizations are?
How in the hell is that even possible after what we’ve seen from them since 2016?
Posted on 4/2/20 at 2:33 pm to RabidTiger
quote:
None of it means a goddamned thing without a large placebo controlled double blind study. Any serious scientist, doctor, or person with common sense knows that.
While all of this is true, if anecdotal evidence is positive then doctors should be able to prescribe it to the patient.
If some serious scientist, doctor or person with common sense chooses not to accept that particular form of treatment, then so be it.
But, those who choose to accept the anecdotal evidence and choose to receive the treatment, do not deserve to be chastised by you or anyone. There will be plenty of time for you to wag your finger and "nanny-nanny boo-boo I told you so."
Posted on 4/2/20 at 2:34 pm to EarlyCuyler3
quote:
No surpise here, the point flew right over your head.
not in the least. You’re just too stupid to realize it.
Posted on 4/2/20 at 2:37 pm to Darth_Vader
Sure thing snowflake. 
Posted on 4/2/20 at 2:37 pm to OKtiger
quote:
These are pharmaceuticals which have mechanisms of action that have been proven with in vitro studies to slow viral replication
Cool, but what about the in vivo studies? Do you know why we do in vivo studies? Because the human body is not a Petri dish. Look up the “lupus anticoagulant” if you want to see this principle in action.
quote:
These need to be administered as quickly as possible to prevent unnecessary hospitalizations.
You’re asking to give these to patients who don’t have serious illness, which would require them going to a doctor to get a screening EKG first, exposing others to the virus.
This drug combo might end up being useful but a study on if they actually prevent hospitalization or intubation would be nice before claiming to know that it does this.
quote:
There's already available information about the safety profiles of these drugs that show cardiac side effects are really, really rare and can be prevented entirely with an ECG before prescribing the drugs.
Prolonged QTc cannot be prevented by an EKG
Posted on 4/2/20 at 2:41 pm to OKtiger
I hope tests prove this specific treatment works extremely well. Really interested to see results of the large NY trial.
However, some people are concerned that this specific treatment is getting such a politically driven publicity blitzkrieg that if it doesn't work that well too many eggs have been placed in the same basket.
At this point, who knows. . . something like this may end up being the real "game changer":
https://www.pittwire.pitt.edu/news/covid-19-vaccine-candidate-shows-promise-first-peer-reviewed-research
Posted on 4/2/20 at 2:45 pm to cwil177
LINK
LINK
LINK
Mass Treatment has begun in Italy with promising results
I get you want to shite on the medication regimen because there is not a double blind placebo clinical trial that proves without a shadow of a doubt it works but...
There is no time for that. People are dying in the thousands every day. I can't stress that enough. There is no time for regular clinical trials when this medication has shown excellent safety profiles and cardiac side effects would be prevented with an ECG.
I believe if you have a discussion with the patient about the risks/benefits of administering this medication most patients and families will understand how dire the situation can be if you are at higher risk of dying from ARDS compared to dying from a rare fatal heart arrhythmia
LINK
LINK
Mass Treatment has begun in Italy with promising results
I get you want to shite on the medication regimen because there is not a double blind placebo clinical trial that proves without a shadow of a doubt it works but...
There is no time for that. People are dying in the thousands every day. I can't stress that enough. There is no time for regular clinical trials when this medication has shown excellent safety profiles and cardiac side effects would be prevented with an ECG.
I believe if you have a discussion with the patient about the risks/benefits of administering this medication most patients and families will understand how dire the situation can be if you are at higher risk of dying from ARDS compared to dying from a rare fatal heart arrhythmia
Posted on 4/2/20 at 2:47 pm to cwil177
quote:
Prolonged QTc cannot be prevented by an EKG
But it can prevent the practioner from prescribing them the drugs in the first place if the practitioner deems the risk of Torsades to be higher than the patient having further complications due to COVID, like ARDS. Apologize if that wasn't clear.
Posted on 4/2/20 at 2:49 pm to RabidTiger
quote:
None of it means a goddamned thing without a large placebo controlled double blind study. Any serious scientist, doctor, or person with common sense knows that. If you want to jump out of a plane with an empty backpack believing it's a parachute then go right ahead.
All of the patients in our hospital are on this regimen. Do you have a better recommendation? If I’m jumping out the plane with nothing, or a bag that might have a parachute... gimme the bag!
Posted on 4/2/20 at 2:53 pm to OKtiger
Oktiger we’ve already covered this. Those are garbage studies by any objective metric.
The first study was small, non blinded, no control group, no placebo arm, and not randomized. 6 patients were “lost” to follow up (1/5! of the study cohort), including three who went to the ICU and one who died.
The second, observational study was also:
- not blinded
- not randomized
- not controlled
- without a placebo arm
- cherry-picked younger and less sick patients than the average for patients who present with this to the ER here in the states
Patients in that second study had the same mortality as what we are seeing here in the states, even when you include ventilated patients. So their results were equal to or worse than standard therapy without HCQ/azithro.
Has your med school taught y’all how to appraise medical literature yet?
The first study was small, non blinded, no control group, no placebo arm, and not randomized. 6 patients were “lost” to follow up (1/5! of the study cohort), including three who went to the ICU and one who died.
The second, observational study was also:
- not blinded
- not randomized
- not controlled
- without a placebo arm
- cherry-picked younger and less sick patients than the average for patients who present with this to the ER here in the states
Patients in that second study had the same mortality as what we are seeing here in the states, even when you include ventilated patients. So their results were equal to or worse than standard therapy without HCQ/azithro.
Has your med school taught y’all how to appraise medical literature yet?
Posted on 4/2/20 at 2:53 pm to cwil177
quote:
You’re asking to give these to patients who don’t have serious illness, which would require them going to a doctor to get a screening EKG first, exposing others to the virus.
Absolutely. In my opinion, if you are 50 years old or above, or if you have a pre-existing condition, and you experience a fever 100.4 or above, a dry cough, or flu like symptoms, you should get an EKG to screen for prolonged QTc. 90% will show to have very limited risk of cardiac side effects, according to Mayo. Those that are ok should receive the medication. Those that are at mild or moderate risk should have a discussion with their physician to weigh the risks/benefits of either taking or not taking it.
Posted on 4/2/20 at 2:55 pm to OKtiger
FWIW there are studies in California looking into using HCQ as prophylaxis therapy in healthcare workers. This is something I’m very interested in because if the results are positive then we can start giving the drug to high risk patients (fat, old, lung disease, etc.).
Posted on 4/2/20 at 2:57 pm to cwil177
quote:
The first study was small, non blinded, no control group, no placebo arm, and not randomized. 6 patients were “lost” to follow up (1/5! of the study cohort), including three who went to the ICU and one who died.
You realize if we proceed with these studies it will take months before the results come out which will undoubtedly result in hundreds of thousands of deaths?
And then what? We come to the conclusion that the FDA approves the use of the medication. Oh wait, the FDA already authorized the use last Sunday.
quote:
Has your med school taught y’all how to appraise medical literature yet?
Yes, but I don't believe we have time to appraise any studies when thousands are dying each day and there is already ample information that present the safety profile of the drug.
This post was edited on 4/2/20 at 3:07 pm
Posted on 4/2/20 at 2:59 pm to cwil177
quote:
This is something I’m very interested in because if the results are positive then we can start giving the drug to high risk patients (fat, old, lung disease, etc.).
Good thing those patients will already be dead the time your study will be completed
Posted on 4/2/20 at 3:01 pm to GusMcRae
quote:
All of the patients in our hospital are on this regimen. Do you have a better recommendation? If I’m jumping out the plane with nothing, or a bag that might have a parachute... gimme the bag!
This. A reasonable doctor is not going to just watch his patient die in front of him because there isn't a double blind placebo trial* that has been completed yet.
This post was edited on 4/2/20 at 3:05 pm
Posted on 4/2/20 at 3:05 pm to EarlyCuyler3
quote:
You post like a raving lunatic and expect "valid" replies.
You expect the govt to save you because you’re a scared man with a bun; then expect to sit down and talk with the adults?
Posted on 4/2/20 at 3:07 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
You don’t think Fox is credible but these “news” organizations are?
How in the hell is that even possible after what we’ve seen from them since 2016?
Because I live in the real world.
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