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Message
Imperial Germany Could Have Won in 1918!
Posted on 6/25/22 at 7:11 pm
Posted on 6/25/22 at 7:11 pm
March 1918
We've often discussed what the world would have looked like had Imperial Germany achieved enough success on the Western Front to force the Allies to the Peace Table. During these discussions, we always correctly focus on the 1914 Western Front campaign.
However, IMHO, most of us overlook the fact that Imperial Germany had a shot at Victory in 1918! I maintain that, if Ludendorff had managed his 1918 campaign more skillfully, the Allies would have been forced to the Peace Table.
Lots of interesting reading and food for thought on the Westfront 1918 is available.
We've often discussed what the world would have looked like had Imperial Germany achieved enough success on the Western Front to force the Allies to the Peace Table. During these discussions, we always correctly focus on the 1914 Western Front campaign.
However, IMHO, most of us overlook the fact that Imperial Germany had a shot at Victory in 1918! I maintain that, if Ludendorff had managed his 1918 campaign more skillfully, the Allies would have been forced to the Peace Table.
Lots of interesting reading and food for thought on the Westfront 1918 is available.
18
Posted on 6/25/22 at 7:12 pm to Champagne
Yeah.. all he had to do was wait like 3 more months to unleash unrestricted subs until after russia folds and he’s Gucci.
That was 17 never mind
That was 17 never mind
This post was edited on 6/25/22 at 7:14 pm
Posted on 6/25/22 at 7:16 pm to Champagne
The world would likely be a vastly different place had Germany won WWI, or at least forced a peace agreement that benefited both sides.
No Hitler. No Nazis.
The USSR would likely become the ultimate problem in the ‘40-60s.
Japan’s course would be interesting, considering their massive cultural shift status post the atomic bombs.
Wonder if it would be better or worse than we currently are.
No Hitler. No Nazis.
The USSR would likely become the ultimate problem in the ‘40-60s.
Japan’s course would be interesting, considering their massive cultural shift status post the atomic bombs.
Wonder if it would be better or worse than we currently are.
Posted on 6/25/22 at 7:18 pm to Scruffy
Nobody would have accepted a stalemate peace
Somebody had to win decisively because the loser had to pay for the war, which Germany did, leading to Hitler.
It would have just dragged on forever until somebody unconditionally surrendered.
Somebody had to win decisively because the loser had to pay for the war, which Germany did, leading to Hitler.
It would have just dragged on forever until somebody unconditionally surrendered.
This post was edited on 6/25/22 at 7:20 pm
Posted on 6/25/22 at 7:20 pm to Champagne
It could be argued that had the Ottomans survived WW I, there is no 9/11, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Egypt, Lebanon, etc or middle east strife.
Posted on 6/25/22 at 7:49 pm to NYNolaguy1
The Footstool Empire would’ve collapsed at some point soon thereafter anyway. Buy the turn of the 20th century they had become woefully incompetent at managing such a large and diverse empire. It was basically a corrupt oligarchy like modern day Russia, but with a much less effective security apparatus to keep everything glued together.
Posted on 6/25/22 at 7:50 pm to Champagne
More likely that the US fully commits and Germany holds out one more year.
Posted on 6/25/22 at 8:22 pm to Locoguan0
Imperial Germany had a brief window from March to May 1918 in which they had numerical superiority on the Western Front. Russia made peace and all of those Eastern German divisions went to the Westfront. That window of opportunity to achieve a military victory on the ground opened before the USA ground forces were present in significant numbers.
Posted on 6/25/22 at 8:28 pm to Scruffy
France would have been the fascist domino
Posted on 6/25/22 at 8:41 pm to Champagne
France was marginalized economically by WW1 the infrastructure even farmlands were destroyed only the relationship with Great Britain and US would have kept France from going commie
Facism, like Spain and Italy would have been inevitable
Facism, like Spain and Italy would have been inevitable
Posted on 6/25/22 at 8:52 pm to Champagne
Nope
Needed a different general. Von Makenson couldve done it
Needed a different general. Von Makenson couldve done it
Posted on 6/25/22 at 11:10 pm to Champagne
The second that Ludendorff/Hindenburg re-started unrestricted sub warfare, they lost the war.
Posted on 6/25/22 at 11:37 pm to Champagne
Socialist revolution breaks out in defeated France and spreads to England.
Posted on 6/26/22 at 9:43 am to prplhze2000
quote:
Nope
Needed a different general. Von Makenson couldve done it
When one studies Ludendorff's strategy for 1918, it is striking to realize that the guy just wasn't very good at this part of his job. He failed to identify the correct center of gravity, so, his choice of objectives was faulty.
He seemed to have no idea how Allied logistics worked and how a strategic breakthough might cut off the British Armies from their sea-port logistical bases.
He seemed to have no idea WRT how the momentum of an offensive can be kept going by use of layers of strategic echelons of attacking groups - a "deep battle" approach to offensive warfare, just like Defense in Depth is a "deep battle" approach to defensive warfare.
Posted on 6/26/22 at 11:08 am to Champagne
This is a gross oversimplification.
Germany was crumbling from the inside. Their own workers, sailors, etc... were mutinying and occupying government buildings. By 1918 it was going to be near impossible for the Kaiser to hold on to power in Germany, let alone win a war against another country.
Germany was crumbling from the inside. Their own workers, sailors, etc... were mutinying and occupying government buildings. By 1918 it was going to be near impossible for the Kaiser to hold on to power in Germany, let alone win a war against another country.
Posted on 6/26/22 at 11:09 am to Scruffy
quote:
The world would likely be a vastly different place had Germany won WWI,
Probably have been much better. Particularly Eastern Europe.
Posted on 6/26/22 at 11:33 am to tadman
quote:
Germany was crumbling from the inside. Their own workers, sailors, etc... were mutinying and occupying government buildings. By 1918 it was going to be near impossible for the Kaiser to hold on to power in Germany, let alone win a war against another country.
While Germany was suffering in early 1918, it really wasn’t until the failure of the “Kaiserschlacht” that widespread unrest really exploded.
The OP does have a point. It was possible the Germans could have forced the Allies to the negotiation table. But the Germans trade a mistake in that they should have focused all their energy in 1918 on France. The truth of the matter is that by 1918, France was itself on thr verge of collapse. The mutiny of 1917 almost brought about this collapse. Had the French army not had such a tight stranglehold on information the French public had when it came to the military situation at the front, its very likely, especially had the 1918 offensives focused on France, that France would have collapsed in 1918.
Posted on 6/26/22 at 11:49 am to Scruffy
quote:
Wonder if it would be better or worse than we currently are.
I dont know how things could have been much worse considering the subsequent horrors of WWII, fascism, communism, Middle East anarchy, Islamic fanaticism, etc.
Posted on 6/26/22 at 11:54 am to Scruffy
Better.
Without question
Without question
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