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Posted on 6/26/22 at 12:15 pm to Palmetto98
You are correct about that. Internally, the privations of the blockade created a political instability. Ludendorff did not accurately assess THAT reality as well!
But, getting back to the suffering Imperial German civilians on the home front - it was severe, but, all of those German combat divisions that were sent West after Russia quit really did create a window of opportunity for victory. Ludendorff and Hindenburg were not talented and skillful enough to take full advantage of the situation - and they were the best that Imperial Germany had at that time.
But, getting back to the suffering Imperial German civilians on the home front - it was severe, but, all of those German combat divisions that were sent West after Russia quit really did create a window of opportunity for victory. Ludendorff and Hindenburg were not talented and skillful enough to take full advantage of the situation - and they were the best that Imperial Germany had at that time.
Posted on 6/26/22 at 12:25 pm to Champagne
You’re right. The Germans did have a window of opportunity in the spring of 1918. Had they focused all their efforts against knocking France out of the war, the Germans would have pulled it off. France was for all intents and purposes at the end of its strength by that time. As I stated earlier, the French army was masterful as propaganda and completely controlling what information filtered from the front to not only the public, but also to the French government. Not even the British realized the severity of the situation for the French army, even after the 1917 mutiny. Had Germany hit France with everything in the Spring of 1918, its highly likely the already fragile French army would have collapsed.
This post was edited on 6/26/22 at 12:27 pm
Posted on 6/26/22 at 12:30 pm to Scruffy
quote:
No Hitler. No Nazis.
But who would liberals compare Trump to?
Posted on 6/26/22 at 12:41 pm to Scruffy
quote:
No Hitler. No Nazis.
Well, to be fair, we don’t know what a France, now defeated by Germany twice in just two generations would look like. Its a certainty rhe French Government would inevitably collapse and be replaced. What would replace it? There was a strong socialist movement in France prior to war breaking out in 1914. Its possible France could emerge from defeat as at least a socialist country or possibly even full blown communist.
Its also not out of the realm of possibility France could have gone the other way and embraced its own version of Fascism. Just as socialism was popular in France before WWI, so was far-right organizations, complete with anti-Semitic beliefs.
Rhe more I consider it, the more realistic the possibly of France lurching either to the far left or far right seems highly plausible. If I had to lay money on it, id say they’d go to the far-left. But thats just educated speculation on my part.
Posted on 6/26/22 at 12:56 pm to Darth_Vader
Look whats happening in Germany now Its no different than in the USA.
Cities are rotting from the inside there as well.
LINK
The inevitable slow death of Western Civ.
Cities are rotting from the inside there as well.
LINK
The inevitable slow death of Western Civ.
This post was edited on 6/26/22 at 12:58 pm
Posted on 6/26/22 at 12:57 pm to Darth_Vader
I would guess they would lean to communism. That was the trendy ideology of the day. Russia was going full bore and seeds were infiltrating many parts of Europe already.
Posted on 6/26/22 at 1:21 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
Socialist revolution breaks out in defeated France and spreads to England.
Ugly thought.
Germany is stuck between two revanchist, fascist powers. Alt-WW2 is going to be quite nasty, although it's hard to imagine it being as bad as Hitler.
Posted on 6/26/22 at 1:24 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
Well, to be fair, we don’t know what a France, now defeated by Germany twice in just two generations would look like.
That's a good point.
Thorez might be the gold standard for pure evil.
Posted on 6/26/22 at 1:56 pm to Scruffy
I think Japan was on a crash course with the West regardless; however, they may not have had an ally in Germany.
Posted on 6/26/22 at 2:18 pm to Bestbank Tiger
quote:
Germany is stuck between two revanchist, fascist powers
Fascism does not equal socialism
Posted on 6/26/22 at 2:22 pm to kciDAtaE
quote:
Fascism does not equal socialism
Two flavors of the same thing.
Hell, Mussolini was a socialist. They kicked him out over personality conflicts.
This post was edited on 6/26/22 at 2:23 pm
Posted on 6/26/22 at 2:24 pm to Scruffy
quote:
The world would likely be a vastly different place had Germany won WWI, or at least forced a peace agreement that benefited both sides.
No Hitler. No Nazis.
This would make it even worse because they would have truly been emboldened to unleash hell. There was al lot of enthusiasm for Germany flexing it’s muscle in the first half of the 20th Century. America’s meteoric rise on the world stage was a direct result of their influence in those two world wars. I think the German war machine would have grown to be dominant in the world. They were just a few bad decisions away from conquering Russia.
Posted on 6/26/22 at 2:35 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
The inevitable slow death of Western Civ.
So what are you blaming this on? And what do you think it means?
Posted on 6/26/22 at 2:37 pm to Champagne
Germany was starving in 1918.
Posted on 6/26/22 at 4:01 pm to Champagne
I don’t think they could have won it in 1918. Germans could have turned the tide and perhaps ended with a German victory with the last ditch offensive. But it would have been in 1919 or later.
Posted on 6/26/22 at 7:33 pm to tadman
Both of you are correct.
Germany was starving to death. Literally. One obstacle to the great offensive was food. The Germans would break through and then couldn't get moving again because their soldiers were starving so much they literally looted all the food. Hell, you can read reports at the time that state how malnourished the German troops were. As stated on this site before, The big L'off drafted all the farm hands and used the horses for cavalry, thus ruining his food supply, unlike England.
He didn't understand strategic objectives. his whole strategy was just to break through the lines and grab territory. He did that, problem is the territory he seized was worthless and useless. The Crown Prince was questioning his plans but was overruled.
Still stand by Von Mekenson. He was a superior general but was stuck on the Eastern Front most of the war. Never got beat. Funny how H&L had their best successes with him around.
Germany was starving to death. Literally. One obstacle to the great offensive was food. The Germans would break through and then couldn't get moving again because their soldiers were starving so much they literally looted all the food. Hell, you can read reports at the time that state how malnourished the German troops were. As stated on this site before, The big L'off drafted all the farm hands and used the horses for cavalry, thus ruining his food supply, unlike England.
He didn't understand strategic objectives. his whole strategy was just to break through the lines and grab territory. He did that, problem is the territory he seized was worthless and useless. The Crown Prince was questioning his plans but was overruled.
Still stand by Von Mekenson. He was a superior general but was stuck on the Eastern Front most of the war. Never got beat. Funny how H&L had their best successes with him around.
Posted on 6/26/22 at 7:48 pm to prplhze2000
i have often wondered how the spanish flu really affected the war in 1918
Posted on 6/26/22 at 7:48 pm to prplhze2000
quote:
. One obstacle to the great offensive was food
Yes. Among others. The defensive position in WWI was much easier to maintain if not solely due to logistics. Relieving men, food, ammunition, communications are much easier when you can supply by rail.
Once you advance past your own rail system, it becomes a significant challenge. Which is why I propose that even if Germany was able to break through in 1918, it would not have assured total victory…more death is a certainty however.
Posted on 6/26/22 at 7:56 pm to fool_on_the_hill
quote:
have often wondered how the spanish flu really affected the war in 1918
I’d argue the result would be the same.
I’ve read others argue that the flu helped end the war by more quickly decimating armies. Without a quicker way for the casualties to mount, would Germany be able to continue to fill the ranks? Not sure I agree, but as you said, it’s interesting to ponder.
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