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HSBC Leak: "Fake Chinese income" mortgages fuel Toronto Real Estate Bubble

Posted on 2/6/24 at 3:21 pm
Posted by stout
Porte du Lafitte
Member since Sep 2006
182573 posts
Posted on 2/6/24 at 3:21 pm
“I found out a huge mortgage fraud showing borrowers with exaggerated income from one specific country, China"


quote:

The whistleblower, a Canadian business school graduate, was staggered by the suspicious home loans he discovered in 2022 when he joined a mortgage approval team in a small HSBC branch on the outskirts of Toronto.

He knew of suspicions surrounding Chinese capital in British Columbia real estate, but had never witnessed shady lending while working at an HSBC branch in Campbell River, a bucolic town on the coast of Vancouver Island.

When he arrived at HSBC’s bank in Aurora, an affluent suburb north of Toronto, he discovered explosive growth in home loans to Chinese diaspora buyers during the Covid-19 pandemic.

Chinese migrants living across Toronto were obtaining mortgages from HSBC while supposedly earning extravagant salaries from remote-work jobs in China. In one example, an Ontario casino worker that owned three homes also claimed to earn $345,000 in 2020 analyzing data remotely for a Beijing company.

Before joining HSBC Canada, the whistleblower had studied fake-income mortgage frauds for his Business Masters degree at Vancouver Island University. After arriving at Aurora in February 2022, while digging into the branch’s loan books and interrogating his colleagues, he made mind-blowing assessments.

Since 2015, the whistleblower concluded, more than 10 Toronto-area HSBC branches had issued at least $500-million in home loans to diaspora buyers claiming exaggerated incomes or non-existent jobs in China.



Half a billion in fake loans while Toronto prices continued to skyrocket

quote:

“The bank found out that one lady works in a casino part-time but got a $1.4 million mortgage showing over $300,000 annual income,” he said. “Plus she takes money as benefits from the government, for her two kids.”

In other examples, an HSBC mortgage client claimed to earn $700,000 annually for remote work in China, while simultaneously living in Canada and paying off a $10,000 student loan.

Another woman who owned homes in Aurora, Markham and Scarborough, worked part-time as a hairdresser while also claiming to earn $536,280 at a “Business Manager” job in Guangzhou.



quote:

The most shocking case reviewed by The Bureau, shows that one woman that owns at least four Toronto properties opened her HSBC Aurora bank account in 2012, claiming to be a “Homemaker with no annual income.”

But her Toronto account soon received incredible amounts of wire transfers from HSBC China accounts, and paid out “high value cheques” to third parties for real estate purchases.

This case suggests “Toronto Method” shadow banking described in FINTRAC’s 2023 study has been seeping into Toronto real estate for about a decade.

And yet in 2020, this same woman applied for another HSBC Canada mortgage, claiming to earn $763,000 remotely from her job in China.



quote:

But in an interview, Yan said what he found most interesting back in 2015, was suspicions that Chinese migrants were often buying homes with bulk cash, weren’t accurate. The truth was more complex and seems to be clarified by D.M.’s mortgage findings in Toronto.

“It's about that global flow of capital, and how it's multiplied by Canada’s mortgage and lending system,” Yan said. “Because you have to remember, one of the biggest conclusions about my study was that it wasn't bags of cash that were being used to purchase Vancouver homes outright. They were loans being used. So now, I’m thinking, this is where my study connects up to what you have discovered in Toronto.”

“The interesting story here,” Yan added, “is what happens in Toronto real estate may not repeat Vancouver, but it perhaps rhymes.”

Probably the most famous Chinese property owner from Yan’s 2015 study areas is Huawei executive Meng Wanzhou. In 2009 her family bought a home in Vancouver’s Dunbar neighborhood for $2.73 million, land titles show. In 1998, ten years before Vancouver Model transactions started to surge in Vancouver real estate, the home was sold for $370,000. The home is now valued at almost $6-million.



Long read but interesting. The "bags of cash" Chinese buyers we heard about in Canada were all fake and so are their loans on the many vacant houses that were bought and never lived in fueling the bubble in Toronto. Wonder how this gets corrected. Also wonder who these buyers were fronts for. China is already dealing with the Evergrande fall out. Wonder if any of this is connected.

This post was edited on 2/6/24 at 3:22 pm
Posted by rundmcrun
Member since Jan 2024
300 posts
Posted on 2/6/24 at 3:26 pm to
quote:

Wonder how this gets corrected


They way all corrections happen, societal collapse or revolution.
Posted by stout
Porte du Lafitte
Member since Sep 2006
182573 posts
Posted on 2/6/24 at 3:31 pm to
quote:

They way all corrections happen, societal collapse or revolution.



It's way more complicated than that.

Is this going to be Canada's 2008 housing market crisis?

If these loans are fake and not being paid then HSBC is in trouble.

If they are getting paid then who is paying them for the hairdresser? It's a front for what?

Just a ton of questions. It's very interesting.

Also, this is yet another good reason the USA needs to prevent China from owning any property here.
Posted by BayouBandit24
Member since Aug 2010
17185 posts
Posted on 2/6/24 at 3:33 pm to
quote:

If they are getting paid then who is paying them for the hairdresser? It's a front for what?


The CCP.
Posted by stout
Porte du Lafitte
Member since Sep 2006
182573 posts
Posted on 2/6/24 at 3:34 pm to
Why would they park money in Canada's real estate market?
Posted by HeadSlash
TEAM LIVE BADASS - St. GEORGE
Member since Aug 2006
56002 posts
Posted on 2/6/24 at 3:35 pm to
quote:

"Fake Chinese income"




Posted by rundmcrun
Member since Jan 2024
300 posts
Posted on 2/6/24 at 3:36 pm to
While I agree it's a fascinating and complex thing, fact is that any correction outside of the two I mentioned will be temporary at best and will likely make the next bubble worse.
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
70544 posts
Posted on 2/6/24 at 3:38 pm to
So who is paying the mortgage? Did they defraud the bank to get the loans to buy the property and just never pay the note? If no one’s paying the note, why wouldn’t the bank just repo the property? Is anyone actually living in these properties? Is the owner living there or are they being slumlorded or converted to short-term rentals?

A lot of questions left unanswered in this article.
Posted by Hangover Haven
Metry
Member since Oct 2013
33707 posts
Posted on 2/6/24 at 3:40 pm to
I hear Letitia James is helping Canada with prosecutions.
This post was edited on 2/6/24 at 3:42 pm
Posted by teke184
Zachary, LA
Member since Jan 2007
104096 posts
Posted on 2/6/24 at 3:40 pm to
quote:

Also wonder who these buyers were fronts for. China is already dealing with the Evergrande fall out. Wonder if any of this is connected.


Probably fronts for various high ranking government officials.
Posted by TigerintheNO
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2004
44932 posts
Posted on 2/6/24 at 3:40 pm to
Is their President in on it? It should have been illegal in the first place.

quote:

The rule, which was first announced in 2022, will now be extended until the beginning of 2027. It bans foreign nationals and commercial enterprises from buying residential property in Canada, with exceptions for some international students, refugee claimants and temporary workers.
Posted by stout
Porte du Lafitte
Member since Sep 2006
182573 posts
Posted on 2/6/24 at 3:41 pm to
quote:

A lot of questions left unanswered in this article.


I agree but considering there aren't massive foreclosures in CA yet I assume the notes are getting paid so who is paying them?

Also, the reports of tons of vacant Chinese-owned homes in Toronto have gone on for the past decade and part of the reason for the bubble leaving many Canadians unable to afford a house so I assume many of them are vacant still.
Posted by Fat and Happy
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2013
19983 posts
Posted on 2/6/24 at 3:44 pm to
China arsehole

It’s also racist and promotes Asian hate if you tell China people that this is wrong to do
Posted by teke184
Zachary, LA
Member since Jan 2007
104096 posts
Posted on 2/6/24 at 3:44 pm to
quote:

Also, the reports of tons of vacant Chinese-owned homes in Toronto have gone on for the past decade and part of the reason for the bubble leaving many Canadians unable to afford a house so I assume many of them are vacant still.


“You will own nothing and like it!”
Posted by member12
Bob's Country Bunker
Member since May 2008
33142 posts
Posted on 2/6/24 at 3:47 pm to
So many modern mid and high rise residential towers popping up all over Toronto. Almost all of it foreign buyers.
Posted by BayouBandit24
Member since Aug 2010
17185 posts
Posted on 2/6/24 at 3:51 pm to
quote:

Why would they park money in Canada's real estate market?


Hedge against parking it all in China. Diversifying.
Posted by SingleMalt1973
Member since Feb 2022
24390 posts
Posted on 2/6/24 at 4:00 pm to
Obligatory…

Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
477250 posts
Posted on 2/6/24 at 4:07 pm to
quote:

I agree but considering there aren't massive foreclosures in CA yet I assume the notes are getting paid so who is paying them?

Chinese nationals who don't want the CCP scrutinizing their investments abroad. This story makes me fear China is in a lot more trouble than the Canadian housing market.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
477250 posts
Posted on 2/6/24 at 4:08 pm to
quote:

“You will own nothing and like it!”

China is the enemy of the "globalist" boogeyman, so I don't understand how their disruption of a "globalist" city like Toronto furthers the "globalist" agenda.
Posted by UnitedFruitCompany
Bay Area
Member since Nov 2018
4096 posts
Posted on 2/6/24 at 4:08 pm to
and people wonder how the bad guys throughout history get in power. I bet they weren't handing out these loans to Canadian citizens. Hell, try getting a mortgage in the US these days and you'll fee like you just went to the proctologist. But hey, a homemaker on government aid no less can get millions of dollars.

Really hoping the check comes due on all of this sooner than later.
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