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Started By
Message
re: Gavin McInnes: 5 Reasons Not to Ban the Confederate Flag
Posted on 6/26/15 at 12:50 am to Froman
Posted on 6/26/15 at 12:50 am to Froman
quote:
I keep waiting for you to make a good point. You don't really seem to know as much about history as you are claiming. It's like you e read one book and keep referencing it over and over again.
I'm referencing the letters of the Southern Commissioners themselves. Written by the leaders of the Confederacy in their attempt to promote secession.
Read them for yourself. I keep referencing it over and over because it's infallible. They're primary resources written by the people in charge of making the decision that outline their thoughts and arguments for secession, and they clearly and definitively state that slavery is their primary driving force behind the need for secession.
The "one book" you're referencing is just the most thorough commentary on those Commissioner letters that I've found. I haven't referenced anything that book said - just recommended it to anyone questioning whether or not the fight for slavery was a primary cause of the Civil War.
I feel like my points about us having no reason to listen to anything the author of that video has to say, my argument about the role of slavery during the foundation of the country, and the role slavery played in the Civil War have all been pretty solid?
This post was edited on 6/26/15 at 12:51 am
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Posted on 6/26/15 at 12:55 am to The Boat
quote:
Obviously the people in power wanted to preserve slavery.
The poor common men fighting for the Confederacy were fighting to protect their home. Many of them hadn't ever seen a slave. That's the people Southerner's think about when they bring up Southern pride.
Very true and fair points for sure. Many didn't even know why they were fighting at the point they signed up. Early on in the war many viewed it as the honorable thing to do. Later on many felt it was their duty to preserve what they perceived to be their way of living.
Still, a huge portion of the people making the decisions from both sides viewed slavery as their primary cause for going to war, and I don't think we really saw that commentary start to change until much later on.
This post was edited on 6/26/15 at 12:57 am
Posted on 6/26/15 at 1:04 am to Tuscaloosa
quote:
The poor common men fighting for the Confederacy were fighting to protect their home. Many of them hadn't ever seen a slave. That's the people Southerner's think about when they bring up Southern pride.
Going back to this.. The South has always been ostracized from the rest of the country. That's why so many people here today think fondly of the poor men taking up arms and fighting the "oppressive" Union coming to burn down their homes. Especially in today's political climate in the majority conservative South.. as the government continues to try to steal more and more liberties, people are going to reflect back to the men who fought that government.
Posted on 6/26/15 at 5:21 am to LSU_Saints_Hornets
]
Such an idiot
quote:
It seems to me you never sat in an English class, but keep up to poor trailer trash grammar your shitty education has provide you.
quote:
There is nothing worst than a fricking liar. .
Such an idiot
This post was edited on 6/26/15 at 5:27 am
Posted on 6/26/15 at 6:25 am to Tuscaloosa
quote:
Still waiting on you to respond to Mr. History.
You should re-watch the whole video beforehand. You mistook several of his arguments for mine and actually agreed with most of what I said while you were trying to "school me".
It feels like you were just looking for an argument based on your other posts in this thread.
I already responded to your first post twice!
And you keep repeating how the civil war was just about slavery without context, but I gave you context.
The southern economy was very dependent on slave labor and even free black slave owners/magnates supported the confederacy.
Louisiana had several black slave masters who owned more than 50 slaves each.
Point being the flags of the Civil War should be kept for historical reference and the confederate flag was never initially about white supremacy and the confederate flag did fly in places other than the battles fields of the civil war.
WWII soldiers also had them with them as well. If that happened and it did, then you can bet confederate flags were at grave sites and flew elsewhere prior to the 60's.
Posted on 6/26/15 at 7:07 am to BigOrangeBri
quote:
Just because they admitted slaves were involved in their past doesn't mean they helped build the company. If this is your leg to stand on for the "slaves built america" argument then it's not a strong one.
Stop talking you degenerate frick. You question whether or not Wachovia benefited from slavery and then in all your ignorance claimed you would retract you statement. I proved your dumbass wrong. Now you want to turn this into it didn't help build their company. Do you have access to there financial records to prove it didn't? No, you do not you are just talking out your arse again.
quote:
You sound angry, maybe you should go burn down an innocent persons business
An ignorant lying piece of shite like yourself is the last person I would take advice from.
Posted on 6/26/15 at 7:17 am to LSU_Saints_Hornets
quote:
Stop talking you degenerate frick. You question whether or not Wachovia benefited from slavery and then in all your ignorance claimed you would retract you statement. I proved your dumbass wrong. Now you want to turn this into it didn't help build their company. Do you have access to there financial records to prove it didn't? No, you do not you are just talking out your arse again.
Why do you keep calling everyone else a dumbass when your writing makes it look like you haven't graduated from third grade?
Posted on 6/26/15 at 7:33 am to fleaux
quote:
Why do you keep calling everyone else a dumbass when your writing makes it look like you haven't graduated from third grade?
Why are you so obsessed with my grammar? I was not aware I was writing on such a formal platform.
Posted on 6/26/15 at 7:47 am to LSU_Saints_Hornets
quote:
Why are you so obsessed with my grammar? I was not aware I was writing on such a formal platform.
I never noticed your grammar until you made fun of someone's "trailer trash education" ..... If I make a mistake ride me all you want, but I'm not the hypocrite ripping someone else's education
Posted on 6/26/15 at 8:18 am to thibodauxtigah
I won't. Maybe if you listed the five reasons. Not our fault you're a lazy OP.
Posted on 6/26/15 at 8:41 am to Tuscaloosa
Of course slavery was a primary driver for the civil war. But it wasn't the absolute only thing. And to be honest with what the country was at the time, the North had no intention to rid the South of slavery with the war. They wanted to keep the Southern states as part of the Union. So when people get high and mighty that the Confederacy represents racist, treasonous criminals while the North represents some superman character that swooped in to save the slaves and the union, it's hogwash.
The south gets this rep of being more racist than the north. And to a point, I can see that some redneck trash is more vocal about it and there was definitely a history there. But we are seeing people calling for the vandalism of monuments and symbols because of the racist past. The way I see it, the Confederacy was a nation (although short lived) that had the institution of slavery. Some of it's founders and the like had slaves. But on the same side of that argument. The United States has the same issue with it's founders who had slaves. There have been no issues with those, because they still represent the hero that is the north! They may be lumped in now, but only for the movement to seem honest. No one cared about them before and that is only because they were not representative of "the south".
I'm not even for the flag, I just think it's misplaced aggression to gain political power for minority groups. This is not like toppling statues of dictators after revolution in other countries as people reference in other places.
The south gets this rep of being more racist than the north. And to a point, I can see that some redneck trash is more vocal about it and there was definitely a history there. But we are seeing people calling for the vandalism of monuments and symbols because of the racist past. The way I see it, the Confederacy was a nation (although short lived) that had the institution of slavery. Some of it's founders and the like had slaves. But on the same side of that argument. The United States has the same issue with it's founders who had slaves. There have been no issues with those, because they still represent the hero that is the north! They may be lumped in now, but only for the movement to seem honest. No one cared about them before and that is only because they were not representative of "the south".
I'm not even for the flag, I just think it's misplaced aggression to gain political power for minority groups. This is not like toppling statues of dictators after revolution in other countries as people reference in other places.
This post was edited on 6/26/15 at 8:44 am
Posted on 6/26/15 at 8:46 am to fleaux
quote:
I never noticed your grammar until you made fun of someone's "trailer trash education" ..... If I make a mistake ride me all you want, but I'm not the hypocrite ripping someone else's education
This is not about hypocrisy, you just want to defend your white brethren who disagree with the facts I stated. If your intent was to merely right wrongs on this board like Captain Save A Ho, why didn't you call out BigbitchBri about not being a man of his word? I know you were well aware of our conversation.
ETA: I see right through your bullshite, cocksucker.
This post was edited on 6/26/15 at 8:48 am
Posted on 6/26/15 at 9:06 am to The Boat
Those poor southerners fought because the southern elite convinced them that even in their lowly and humble position they should still be on a higher position than a slave.
A trend that continues today.
People use that flag for a sense of pride and sense of identity, which is sad, but if that's all you got then that's all you got.
A trend that continues today.
People use that flag for a sense of pride and sense of identity, which is sad, but if that's all you got then that's all you got.
Posted on 6/26/15 at 9:10 am to Taurus
Those "black" slave owners were not allowed to fight on the confederates side during the war.
FWIW those "black" people who owned slaves were of mixed heritage, and many only owned slaves as a means to keep non free members of their own families from being split up.
FWIW those "black" people who owned slaves were of mixed heritage, and many only owned slaves as a means to keep non free members of their own families from being split up.
Posted on 6/26/15 at 9:27 am to BIGDAB
quote:
Those "black" slave owners were not allowed to fight on the confederates side during the war.
And I didn't say they did. They most certainly supported the confederacy's war effort.
quote:
FWIW those "black" people who owned slaves were of mixed heritage
Blanket statement is not necessarily true for all.
quote:
and many only owned slaves as a means to keep non free members of their own families from being split up.
one reason for them, but still motivated to keep their fortunes in place.
Posted on 6/26/15 at 6:21 pm to LSU_Saints_Hornets
quote:
Stop talking you degenerate frick. You question whether or not Wachovia benefited from slavery and then in all your ignorance claimed you would retract you statement. I proved your dumbass wrong. Now you want to turn this into it didn't help build their company. Do you have access to there financial records to prove it didn't? No, you do not you are just talking out your arse again. quote: You sound angry, maybe you should go burn down an innocent persons business An ignorant lying piece of shite like yourself is the last person I would take advice from.
Sorry, not sorry.
This post was edited on 6/26/15 at 6:26 pm
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