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Started By
Message
re: Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore has collapsed - container ship wrecked into it
Posted on 3/26/24 at 3:15 pm to AwgustaDawg
Posted on 3/26/24 at 3:15 pm to AwgustaDawg
quote:And prior to the crash, this ship had tugs helping it around. It wasn’t until it got turned around and to the wider part of the channel did they leave.
Savannah River Channel is very narrow compared to that channel.
1
Posted on 3/26/24 at 3:22 pm to AwgustaDawg
quote:
Not the time for it
It’s absolutely the time to discuss the economic impact this will have regarding the 8th busiest port tonnage wise in the US. Along with the local economy of time lost from commuters and downstream costs of this event. This is unprecedented to a degree in modern America.
Posted on 3/26/24 at 3:23 pm to FleurDeLonestar
quote:
This is unprecedented to a degree in modern America.
Posted on 3/26/24 at 3:23 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
I don't know much about big ship wheels but wouldn't they cavitate if moved into full reverse and thus be more or less useless. I also don't know if cargo ships have controllable pitch props either.
Adding to what Jones has correctly said throughout this thread, cavitation and hydrodynamic inefficiency limits the props ability to fully reverse ship's direction in a rapid fashion. During sea trials it's an exercise called "crash astern" and for a ship that size, one to two nautical miles to come dead in the water from 10 knots would be excellent performance.
They don't have controllable pitch props which are fairly complex mechanical-hydraulic maintenance monsters. Container ships, while huge, are built for simplicity to go in one direction, forward.
Modern large cruise ships use 360 degree Azipod propulsion along with bow thrusters, far more maneuverable to avoid having to use tugs at ports of call for (when possible) docking and departure.
Posted on 3/26/24 at 3:27 pm to OU812ME2
quote:
Unfortunately, immediately we need to put up bumpers or pylons to protect bridge supports on every span that see's ship traffic.
While we are at it, lets put some bumpers on trains to protect vehicles crossing the tracks.
Posted on 3/26/24 at 3:31 pm to FleurDeLonestar
quote:
It’s absolutely the time to discuss the economic impact this will have regarding the 8th busiest port tonnage wise in the US. Along with the local economy of time lost from commuters and downstream costs of this event. This is unprecedented to a degree in modern America.
Our government voluntarily shut our economy down like 4 years ago. This port will be back open in a few months and the cargo will be redirected until then. Sucks for the traffic though, but back to my first point, remote working will fire back up!
ETA:
I'm being a bit tongue in cheek, I know there will be major local economic consequences, but I don't think the national impact will be all that bad.
This post was edited on 3/26/24 at 3:34 pm
Posted on 3/26/24 at 3:32 pm to Mr Breeze
quote:
one to two nautical miles to come dead in the water from 10 knots would be excellent performance.
This ship wasn't going 10 knots though right? I'm assuming it was going extremely slowly as it had just pulled out and was still in the harbor?
Was the wind blowing it aggressively? The bridge span looked very wide compared to the ship 3-5 times the ships width, to the point that it should have never had an issue hitting the bridge unless it had been off course for quite some time? If it was off course for quite some time, there was likely a missed call by the pilot to abort leaving the harbor sooner?
Posted on 3/26/24 at 3:34 pm to baldona
I thought someone in this thread said 9 knots?
Posted on 3/26/24 at 3:36 pm to CatfishJohn
quote:
I'm being a bit tongue in cheek, I know there will be major local economic consequences, but I don't think the national impact will be all that bad.
The Covid lockdown insanity was my first thought when I read his unprecedented comment too, if that makes you feel better. 
Posted on 3/26/24 at 3:38 pm to CatfishJohn
quote:
This port will be back open in a few months
If not sooner. Whoever said 2 years or whatever was being... well... I gotta think that was just a knee-jerk reaction to something that had just happened.
Posted on 3/26/24 at 3:42 pm to ell_13
quote:
And prior to the crash, this ship had tugs helping it around. It wasn’t until it got turned around and to the wider part of the channel did they leave.
I bet the new rule is tugs stay with the ship until it clears the bridge..
Posted on 3/26/24 at 3:43 pm to baldona
quote:
This ship wasn't going 10 knots though right? I'm
My understanding is these ships need to be at a curtain speed to steer properly?
Posted on 3/26/24 at 3:43 pm to baldona
IIRC it's speed was near 8-9 knots approaching the bridge. The wind was negligible at less than 1 knot. Lots of good info in this thread, scattered throughout.
I can't keep up.
I can't keep up.
Posted on 3/26/24 at 3:44 pm to Obtuse1
I just rewatched the GIF a little more closely and while I think it would have failed because of the loss of tension on the bottom chord I now think the failure occurred before that could happen. If you watch right before the upper and lower chords fail to the left of the right piling the upper chord actually goes into tension and the lower chord goes into compression (opposite of their designed states) and this shift lifts the portion of the span right of the piling up. Depending on the type of bearing used where the right portion of the truss span meets the concrete road bridge it either lifted off or stayed attached but either way excessive lateral torsional buckling in the lower chord and tensile failure in the upper chord would occur.
Posted on 3/26/24 at 3:45 pm to JDPndahizzy
quote:
I bet the new rule is tugs stay with the ship until it clears the bridge..
Which bridge?
There's another one a few miles out ships must go under, then there's the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel they must navigate across before entering the Atlantic
Posted on 3/26/24 at 3:45 pm to Mr Breeze
Lots of instant cargo ship captains and pilots just appear here over night
This post was edited on 3/26/24 at 4:36 pm
Posted on 3/26/24 at 3:47 pm to Prominentwon
quote:Social media has rotten people’s brains, especially Twitter, with everything is a conspiracy posts.
It won’t be long before I just remove everyone from my FB. I usually just use it for my own personal photo album. The rest of the nonsense is of no concern to me….. I have seen so many post that “this sure doesn’t look like an accident to me”. It’s insanely crazy to me how many maritime experts I have on my timeline and the people I’ve read post on X. Listening to these people, this ships stop on a dime like vehicles do
Hell, two boomers in my office are convinced it was intentional.
Posted on 3/26/24 at 3:49 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
I just rewatched the GIF a little more closely and while I think it would have failed because of the loss of tension on the bottom chord I now think the failure occurred before that could happen. If you watch right before the upper and lower chords fail to the left of the right piling the upper chord actually goes into tension and the lower chord goes into compression (opposite of their designed states) and this shift lifts the portion of the span right of the piling up. Depending on the type of bearing used where the right portion of the truss span meets the concrete road bridge it either lifted off or stayed attached but either way excessive lateral torsional buckling in the lower chord and tensile failure in the upper chord would occur.
I just gotta say... I don't know what any of that means... but it sounds darn impressive.
Posted on 3/26/24 at 3:52 pm to baldona
quote:
This ship wasn't going 10 knots though right?
8.5-9 knots
Did you whatch the video?
Posted on 3/26/24 at 3:52 pm to OU812ME2
quote:
Unfortunately, immediately we need to put up bumpers or pylons to protect bridge supports on every span that see's ship traffic.
I really don't know why dolphins are not mandatory around bridge piers on waterways that see large ships.
The Mississippi River bridges owned by the railroad I worked for certainly had them for protection against wayward barges. Here's one of them with the dolphins clearly visible;
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