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Message
re: Florida man kills 70 year old customer and gets house arrest
Posted on 3/9/22 at 1:43 pm to fr33manator
Posted on 3/9/22 at 1:43 pm to fr33manator
0
Posted on 3/9/22 at 1:45 pm to fr33manator
quote:
Except the media made it about that.
Okay that's fair. The media absolutely sucks for that.
quote:
Don’t frame it as okay because some old a-hole said a naughty word.
Frame it as he didn’t intend to kill the old pedo but the old man was egging it on.
Yes that would have been better. I agree here.
Posted on 3/9/22 at 1:45 pm to chryso
quote:
What word, if spoken to white people, makes it ok for them to commit violence against someone?
Stickemup
Posted on 3/9/22 at 1:47 pm to fr33manator
Since this story broke, the guy who said the bad word has been vilified more than the guy who killed him
Again, the "victim" isn't much of one, but we live in a nuthouse
Again, the "victim" isn't much of one, but we live in a nuthouse
Posted on 3/9/22 at 1:51 pm to chryso
quote:
Apparently, if you say something rude it is ok to kill you.
He didn't pull out a gun and shoot the guy. He didn't choke him out. He fricking punched him which sounds like it was exactly what this old kid fricker deserved.
Manslaughter would be the absolute harshest charge the kid could get for this and I'm glad the DA didn't go that route. Kid's life shouldn't be ruined because an old racist pederast couldn't take a punch he deserved.
Posted on 3/9/22 at 1:58 pm to LordSaintly
So so so much crap gets twisted by the media to make it seem racist when it isn’t.
Or at least that isn’t the operative factor.
They try to get people on both sides riled up to feed off our anger. frick the MSM.
Or at least that isn’t the operative factor.
They try to get people on both sides riled up to feed off our anger. frick the MSM.
Posted on 3/9/22 at 1:59 pm to Pettifogger
Maybe he could go knock out old Joe next. You know, since he’s said the verboten word and been racist his whole life
Posted on 3/9/22 at 1:59 pm to WDE24
quote:
The part where the guy got irate in the drive through to the point of being asked to leave, or the part where he parked his car and came in the store anyway after being asked to leave and was irate, or the part where he ignored more requests to leave while yelling at the staff and lobbing racial slurs.
Dealing with irate customers in a retail setting isn’t fun, but it happens with various words used often. I remember being called white boy and so on in the past.
Initially while the old guy was saying other deeming stuff toward staff the 27 year old acted appropriately and had another call police up until slur caused him to make it about himself and then came out from work area looking for a fight.
The old guy was wrong, but the 27 year old deserves more than house arrest. Probably not full sentence allowed - especially under aggravated manslaughter - but some time in jail.
It was at least involuntary manslaughter, and in Florida if the below is found I think it could have been aggravated manslaughter due to victim’s age.
quote:
825.102 Abuse, aggravated abuse, and neglect of an elderly person or disabled adult; penalties.— (1) “Abuse of an elderly person or disabled adult” means:
(a) Intentional infliction of physical or psychological injury upon an elderly person or disabled adult;
(b) An intentional act that could reasonably be expected to result in physical or psychological injury to an elderly person or disabled adult;…
This post was edited on 3/9/22 at 2:56 pm
Posted on 3/9/22 at 2:00 pm to Turf Taint
quote:
While I want to hear your point, I do not believe that a one sized fits all criminal justice system, one that ignores human and situational context, intent, etc. is best for society. I think these matter for justice.
A 27 year old smokes a 77 year old and knocks him out. WOW…. Congratulations BTW…. It takes quite a man to do that I’m sure. Real tough guy stuff.
The most important thing here is that 27 year olds, or any year olds for that matter, need to control their behavior, and that is not being emotionally charged every time somebody says something. It’s just WORDS. That’s all, but when you knock a geriatric out and kill him because you lost your shite and decided to hit him because he hurt your feelings, then there needs to be a bit more than some house arrest and community service for it. If he had shot him, or stabbed him with a knife he had in his hand at the time for instance because he lost his shite rather than his fist, I feel certain we wouldn’t be talking house arrest right now, don’t you? A balled up fist is still a weapon.
The simple truth of the matter is that society is out of control with it’s anger and with it’s desire to constantly lash out in response to it. You see this in these massive fights, and you see it in shootings, and you see it in the road rage incidents, as well as people just laying on their horns and aggressive behavior behind the wheel. It’s become epidemic, and the reason for it is that people do not control themselves anymore. They’ve been victimized, and they go with the first impulse and that’s to lash out. There’s no filter, and there’s no self control. So, the guy called you a racist word. So what? Does that give you the right to hit a 77 year old man because his words hurt your feelings?
That’s where society is at present, and it’s childish and out of control.
Posted on 3/9/22 at 2:03 pm to WDE24
Violence is violence.
Assault is assault.
Assault is assault.
Posted on 3/9/22 at 2:05 pm to fightin tigers
So old man should still be in prison for multiple pedo offenses. Imo Disturbing offenses... That should land someone in jail for 20 years... Instead they let him run free after 3 years... Hell he was probably mad that he lost one of his kiddie porn DVDs.
Posted on 3/9/22 at 2:06 pm to Mike da Tigah
quote:
If he had shot him, or stabbed him with a knife he had in his hand at the time for instance because he lost his shite rather than his fist, I feel certain we wouldn’t be talking house arrest right now, don’t you?
Well, yeah. Most people would know that shooting or stabbing someone would most likely result in death or severe injury. That's not the case with a fist
quote:
The simple truth of the matter is that society is out of control with it’s anger and with it’s desire to constantly lash out in response to it. You see this in these massive fights, and you see it in shootings, and you see it in the road rage incidents, as well as people just laying on their horns and aggressive behavior behind the wheel. It’s become epidemic, and the reason for it is that people do not control themselves anymore. They’ve been victimized, and they go with the first impulse and that’s to lash out.
This is all true
quote:
There’s no filter, and there’s no self control.
Seems to be the case with the older man as well here.
Posted on 3/9/22 at 2:06 pm to mmmmmbeeer
quote:
Manslaughter would be the absolute harshest charge the kid could get for this and I'm glad the DA didn't go that route. Kid's life shouldn't be ruined because an old racist pederast couldn't take a punch he deserved.
I think aggravated manslaughter was harshest charge due to the victim being 77 years old.
And the “kid” was a 27 year old adult. Why do you think black adult males should be looked upon and treated like children throwing temper tantrums?
This post was edited on 3/9/22 at 2:58 pm
Posted on 3/9/22 at 2:09 pm to jchamil
quote:
Seems to be the case with the older man as well here.
Of course it is.
Posted on 3/9/22 at 2:11 pm to dallastigers
quote:
And the “kid” was a 27 year old adult.
Lol at calling a 27 year old a "kid"
Posted on 3/9/22 at 2:21 pm to i am dan
quote:That’s deep.
Violence is violence. Assault is assault.
Again, the person that committed the assault was properly punished for it.
Posted on 3/9/22 at 2:25 pm to Mike da Tigah
quote:lol at equating punching someone with a fist to shooting or stabbing them. What if he just pushed him in the face or chest and he fell back or slapped him with an open hand and the same result?
If he had shot him, or stabbed him with a knife he had in his hand at the time for instance because he lost his shite rather than his fist, I feel certain we wouldn’t be talking house arrest right now, don’t you? A balled up fist is still a weapon.
His clean record, lack of intent, and the question of whether death was a reasonably anticipated outcome combined with the old man’s own behavior in creating the incident resulted in a crime and sentence that isn’t the same as shooting or stabbing someone and that’s a good and just thing.
Posted on 3/9/22 at 2:56 pm to dallastigers
quote:The first one fits to a T.
Neither of the justifications seem to fit.
quote:The man was asked to leave. He no longer had permission to remain. After being asked to leave and refusing to do so, force can be used to terminate the trespass.
A person is justified in using or threatening to use force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to prevent or terminate the other’s trespass
quote:You agree that force was authorized, you merely disagree on how the force was applied. You also want to create a fiction about the facts by separating the old man's words from his behavior. The old man refused to leave, and he was creating dangerous environment. Force was authorized.
He already asked another employee to call cops to get the 77 year old removed. That was reasonable. It may have been reasonable to forcibly but safely remove the man and wait for cops outside if situation and slur were disrupting customers around him (company policy comes into play as well with what they can do).
Posted on 3/9/22 at 3:38 pm to Salviati
quote:
You agree that force was authorized, you merely disagree on how the force was applied. You also want to create a fiction about the facts by separating the old man's words from his behavior. The old man refused to leave, and he was creating dangerous environment. Force was authorized.
No. I specifically stated "may" as I
don't know all nuances in Florida law with
"force" especially in regards to being able to detain them in a trespassing situation or in regards to this business if this employee is considered by law or by employer to be "a person whose property he or she has a legal duty to protect." I also don’t think someone who knew he needed cops involved to remove this person all of a sudden reasonably believed that punching this 77 year old guy was needed to terminate the trespass. 27 year old was no longer triggered by trespassing but by word. He then went on to challenge the guy to say it again and then punched him for personal reasons not that it was a reasonably way to terminate this guy’s trespassing.
I assume they might have to put hands on a person without permission or point a gun at them to do the below which would be considered use of force, but it doesn’t seem like they automatically get to pick the “force” with trespassing as battery or others involving “use of force” aren’t listed with automatic immunity.
quote:
Any owner or person authorized by the owner may, for prosecution purposes, take into custody and detain, in a reasonable manner, for a reasonable length of time, any person when he or she reasonably believes that a violation of this paragraph has been or is being committed, and he or she reasonably believes that the person to be taken into custody and detained has committed or is committing such violation. In the event a person is taken into custody, a law enforcement officer shall be called as soon as is practicable after the person has been taken into custody. The taking into custody and detention by such person, if done in compliance with the requirements of this paragraph, shall not render such person criminally or civilly liable for false arrest, false imprisonment, or unlawful detention.
I also brought up possibility that a 27 year old punching a 77 year old may not be force but considered deadly force.
quote:
Neither of the justifications seem to fit. Also use of force can be drawing gun out without shooting it while use of deadly force doesn’t actually have to cause death and can be just likely to cause great bodily harm - “…means great as distinguished from slight, trivial, minor, or moderate harm, and as such does not include mere bruises.”
quote:
A Florida court described it as more than “slight, trivial, minor or moderate harm [and][a]s such, does not include mere bruises…” Heck v. State, 774 So.2d 844, 845 (Fla. App. 2000). Facial fractures, a fractured leg, and scars have all been determined to constitute great bodily harm by Florida courts. Id. It appears that broken bones, loss of an organ function, and disfigurement would all be considered great bodily harm in the context of use of force.
This post was edited on 3/9/22 at 4:56 pm
Posted on 3/9/22 at 3:43 pm to dallastigers
quote:
I also don’t think someone who knew he needed cops involved to remove this person all of a sudden reasonably believed that punching this 77 year old guy was needed to terminate the trespass.
The situation couldn't have changed between saying call the cops and hitting the guy? Is there a video? Kind of hard to really weigh in without seeing it
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