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Started By
Message
re: Florida is putting an end to all school vaccine mandates
Posted on 9/3/25 at 9:35 pm to gatorrocks
Posted on 9/3/25 at 9:35 pm to gatorrocks
quote:
So my question is, why do you care if other people's kids are vaccinated if your kid is?
The argument is "for the children who cannot be immunized or are immunocompromised".
I disagree with compulsory beneficence, personally.
The kid with leukemia, as posted above, is also at risk from other, more common communicable diseases for which we don't vaccinate. If a kid in this situation cannot safely attend school, it sucks but that is what it is.
I could compare that to schools being peanut free zones but it would be a false comparison as restricting peanuts on campus is far different than compulsory injections- especially the amount of compulsory injections... we aren't talking one shot, one time.
The SNAP/dietary restriction is not very good either because SNAP is not mandated by law, whereas school is. Also, food restrictions- restrictions on what you CAN'T have are a different animal than requirements on what you MUST have.
The argument that was best is that in this day and age, children of all ages can access online schooling to fulfill their state requirements in education. That does, in fact, take a lot of the "compulsory" sting out of it.
1
Posted on 9/3/25 at 9:37 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
Take a breath and touch some grass nerd
Big words from a little man. I hope you get the professional validation you so desperately seek. Maybe your boss will even pat you on the head.
Posted on 9/3/25 at 9:38 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
I hope you get the professional validation you so desperately seek.
This is totally normal behavior
Posted on 9/3/25 at 9:41 pm to gatorrocks
quote:
If you're vaccinated against the diseases, will you still catch/spread it?
Possible but rare.
quote:
Meaning if I have the polio or measles vaccine, isn't the kid protected from it?
No, because the kid is going to be around other kids, presumably. With certain vaccinations, we also want to prevent serious complications.
quote:
So my question is, why do you care if other people's kids are vaccinated if your kid is?
Because human immunity ties the health of the strongest of the community to the health of the weakest. For something like measles, you need high rates of vaccination to keep it from spreading because it is exceptionally contagious.
Posted on 9/3/25 at 9:42 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
This is totally normal behavior
It's more normal than your armchair psychology, which you introduced, as well as following me around for the last few years as I post in topics which are clearly above your paygrade. Go ahead and invoke something else so I can continue mocking you for it.
Posted on 9/3/25 at 9:42 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
If you're vaccinated against the diseases, will you still catch/spread it?
quote:
Possible but rare.
Posted on 9/3/25 at 9:50 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
Hit me with some more armchair psych little dude.
Posted on 9/3/25 at 9:53 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
touch some grass nerd
Unlike you, he'd have to bend down to do so.
Posted on 9/3/25 at 9:56 pm to MemphisGuy
quote:
Unlike you, he'd have to bend down to do so.
No one has to bend down to touch grass. How dumb can you be?
Posted on 9/3/25 at 9:59 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
How dumb can you be?
Apparently not as dumb as you, that's for dang sure.
Posted on 9/3/25 at 10:06 pm to Shexter
Once he mentioned slavery I realized he is wrong
Posted on 9/3/25 at 10:19 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:The route of delivery with Covid is injection. The route of delivery with natural infection is mucosal. This can effect immune response.
The presentation to the innate immune system is not different
quote:
The presentation to the innate immune system is not different. I have no idea what 'the antigen is different with non-live vaccines' means, as that sentence borders on nonsense.
Is immune imprinting with a single antigen is different than imprinting from the whole virus?
quote:Repeatedly activating the adaptive arm doesn't have the potential to cause immune dysregulation?
It's something the human body can do extremely well. This sounds like something you read somewhere and thought profound
quote:Where is the desire and funding to study potential issues here? Is absence of evidence is evidence of of absence?
They probably don't, or at least, we don't have significant evidence of this, but again, this is the question one might pose if they believed the vaccines were worse that the diseases which they protect against.
quote:I'm not sure how many times I warned about it but it did alarm me to read in the EUA that it was an 'Unknown Risk' of Covid vaccination. I felt people should be aware of it. Didn't a Cleveland Clinic study show the more vaccines the more susceptible to Covid in healthcare workers? Might that be antibody-dependent enhancement of infection?
Maybe you should try that again. It has been a while since you mentioned antibody-dependent enhancement. Did that every play out? You certainly warned about it enough.
quote:I have Janeway's ninth edition. Obviously, it is beyond complex for a layperson but it definitely seems to over-focus on adaptive immunity and under-focus on innate immunity. I was disappointed it doesn't even mention 'trained innate immunity'. Does your Cellular Immunology textbook? It is said to be a paradigm shift in immunology.
If you go to page 1184 of Cellular Immunology, it says this explicitly.
quote:Sorry you feel that way.
Interacting with you is a good argument for gatekeeping knowledge.
Posted on 9/3/25 at 10:33 pm to SallysHuman
quote:
I disagree with compulsory beneficence, personally.
The reality is that all unvaxxed children are leaning on the herd immunity created by the vaxxed children and adults. If all those diseases were ones that continued to be fully present in the environment despite herd immunity 99% of those non-vaxing parents would be knocking people down to get their kids to the front of the line.
One of the most interesting things about this debate is the Venn diagram where the people who yell the loudest about disease-ridden foreigners coming into the country almost completely overlaps the circle of people who are anti-vaxxers (in this context vis-a-vis typical childhood vaccines). One of the reasons, if not the primary reason those dirty disease vector children from 3rd world countries are different from US born children is the broadly mandated US vax program.
Posted on 9/3/25 at 10:35 pm to Shexter
Y’all remember when being anti vax was a left wing thing like 5 years ago?
Posted on 9/3/25 at 10:36 pm to idsrdum
quote:
The route of delivery with Covid is injection. The route of delivery with natural infection is mucosal. This can effect immune response.
With COVID, it can be mucosal as well as systemic. We know this because COVID was also a coagulopathy. There is some differences between IgA and IgG immunity though.
quote:
Is immune imprinting with a single antigen is different than imprinting from the whole virus?
No, it is the same process. The whole virus will have much more antigenic material to process, but a single antigen is going to go through the same process.
quote:
Repeatedly activating the adaptive arm doesn't have the potential to cause immune dysregulation?
To be clear, having a distinct HLA serotype is more associated with immune dysregulation than any notion of activating the adaptive immune system. That system never turns off. It just works slower than the innate immune system.
quote:
Where is the desire and funding to study potential issues here? Is absence of evidence is evidence of of absence?
Well, we have a plethora of immune-related diseases that are not vaccine-associated but are associated with infectious disease. The vaccine associations are just not that important when we are still learning about the role that infectious agents play in immune dysregulation.
quote:
I'm not sure how many times I warned about it but it did alarm me to read in the EUA that it was an 'Unknown Risk' of Covid vaccination. I felt people should be aware of it.
It wasn't a serious risk nor did it ever present itself to be a risk for this particular virus. It was just nonsense some guy on the internet repeated among the lots of other nonsense that was repeated.
quote:
Does your Cellular Immunology textbook?
That concept will not make it to textbooks for a while.
Posted on 9/3/25 at 10:44 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
One of the most interesting things about this debate is the Venn diagram where the people who yell the loudest about disease-ridden foreigners coming into the country almost completely overlaps the circle of people who are anti-vaxxers (in this context vis-a-vis typical childhood vaccines)
Maybe.
Maybe the term "antivaxxer" is misapplied.
I am not an antivaxxer. I DO believe a better spread of schedule, I do believe in some selectivity (covid, flu, hepB, HPV, varicella).
Because I don't necessarily strictly adhere to the top down, one size fits all approach- I get labeled "antivaxxer".
Both of my children are immunized. My daughter's were delayed, my son's were better spread and I skipped some of the recommended shots as recommended in their time frame, such as those in parentheses above.
The issue is NOT black and white.
Even crazylsu says covid and flu shots are different as they are seasonal... yet they ARE on "the schedule".
Be careful thinking everyone is antivaxxer... a lot of us aren't.
Posted on 9/3/25 at 10:49 pm to Shexter
Measles and mumps finna thrive
Posted on 9/3/25 at 10:56 pm to gatorrocks
quote:
Just curious as to why people care as long as their kid is vaccinated?
It’s not guaranteed immunity, just substantially improved resistance (both to getting sick and to the severity of the sickness if you get it). Since each transmission event is probabilistic “chance,” vaccination dramatically slows the spread of an illness through a population because each “jump” is successively much more difficult.
This stuff has to be balanced against concern for side effects, naturally. That’s why we had the regime we did before COVID. They weren’t making kids get hundreds of shots for every conceivable illness, just a handful with very low risk of problems + very high payoff in terms of what’s being prevented.
But people were understandably skeptical about the COVID vaccines since they were new and the long term effects weren’t known. Medical professionals squandered public trust. Unfortunately, instead of the levelheaded view prevailing that maybe we overreacted to COVID and that this doesn’t necessarily impugn vaccines in general, now it’s fashionable to assume all vaccination is a dangerous subversive effort to control people.
Posted on 9/3/25 at 11:39 pm to SallysHuman
quote:
Be careful thinking everyone is antivaxxer... a lot of us aren't.
The problem with the term is that it is neither a codified (legal or professional) nor a society-agreed-upon term of art. So with that backdrop, I see it as contextual, as I read it the context of the thread was stripping mandates for all childhood vaccines. To me, unless a person who agrees with the move specifies which ones they think it makes sense to mandate or not mandate I will just lump them in as a general antivaxxer because they have not supplied any further context.
In the end, I think certain vaccine mandates are in the best interest of public health in a way that is reasonable to support the social contract we all have to live in society.
Posted on 9/3/25 at 11:43 pm to Shexter
Glad I don’t have school age children anymore.
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