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Message
1
Posted on 8/23/21 at 11:51 am to Obtuse1
quote:
You talk about trust even if you believe you can't trust anyone's words look at actions. The overwhelming majority of MDs got one of the vaccines basically as soon as they could and recommended their loved ones do the same thing. That is a difficult hill to surmount in my opinion.
If you haven't lost respect for doctors and especially hospital administrations over the past year, then you haven't really watched the way they have manipulated damn near every communication and still continue to do so. No I don't trust that the doctors did anything but succumb to peer/management pressure.
That said, I'm not anti-vaccine. I'm glad it's out there, fat and old people need to take it. I did a bunch of math and right now I'm about 70/30 not taking it, so holding for now. I'm very anti-mandate, that's all I come here to argue about. The mandates are a level up for the ruining of society, and I hope what has already stared isn't irreversible.
Posted on 8/23/21 at 11:51 am to LegendInMyMind
Probably a month or so away
Posted on 8/23/21 at 11:51 am to ell_13
quote:
Probably a month or so away
Thanks.
I legitimately did not expect an answer in this thread.
Posted on 8/23/21 at 11:53 am to calcotron
quote:I trust my PCP. He said masks don’t do shite but the vaccine is safe and everyone should get it. And he only took that stance since the delta variant and the difference in how easily it can spread and it’s effects on a slightly lower age group.
If you haven't lost respect for doctors and especially hospital administrations over the past year, then you haven't really watched the way they have manipulated damn near every communication and still continue to do so. No I don't trust that the doctors did anything but succumb to peer/management pressure.
Posted on 8/23/21 at 11:53 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
At least you're honest about what it's doing to small businesses. The fact you think it's ok is worrisome.
I like 777 but it is interesting he argues business rights about the vaccine while ignoring all the other regulations business owners face every day that diminish their rights.
Either the Government can interfere with your legal business or they can't.
I don't disagree with businesses being able to mandate vaccines if they choose to do so FWIW but if that's the case then let's repeal the anti-smoking law in LA for example and let the businesses choose if they want to allow that or not.
This post was edited on 8/23/21 at 11:55 am
Posted on 8/23/21 at 11:54 am to LegendInMyMind
It’s my guesstimate based on when they released their vaccine compared to Pfizer. They’re also close to the end of the process based on other info in this thread. J&J is pretty far behind.
Posted on 8/23/21 at 11:55 am to calcotron
quote:
I did a bunch of math and right now I'm about 70/30 not taking it, so holding for now.
You clearly didnt do it well if thats your conclusion.
Posted on 8/23/21 at 11:56 am to GreenRockTiger
quote:
You do like that vaccines are not mandatory for school, right?
If you have the correct papers filled out - they are not necessary.
A few years ago when I worked at the public library, a parent requested we ask for immunization records for children to attend story time. now it may look like she will get what she wants - even thought must ‘school’ shots aren’t recommended until the age of 4
Depends on the state.
Some don't give religious exemption but will give medical exemption.
Either way, Jacobson v Massachusetts supports compulsory vaccinations and has been challenged several times without fail.
quote:
The liberty secured by the Constitution of the United States does not import an absolute right in each person to be at all times, and in all circumstances, wholly freed from restraint, nor is it an element in such liberty that one person, or a minority of persons residing in any community and enjoying the benefits of its local government, should have power to dominate the majority when supported in their action by the authority of the State.
It is within the police power of a State to enact a compulsory vaccination law, and it is for the legislature, and not for the courts, to determine
Jacobson v Massachusetts ruling
This post was edited on 8/23/21 at 11:57 am
Posted on 8/23/21 at 11:57 am to stout
quote:
I like 777 but it is interesting he argues business rights about the vaccine while ignoring all the other regulations business owners face every day that diminish their rights.
Most people have never run a small business. They have absolutely no clue what it takes in the way of regulations and legalities.
The fact he knows this is hurting small business and touting it says a lot about the guy though. Jesus. Barriers to entry and commerce help large corporations who are well capitalized. They crush small business.
This post was edited on 8/23/21 at 11:58 am
Posted on 8/23/21 at 12:01 pm to tigersports4
quote:
Show me the study with the half life of the mrna therapy is moot in the system after 3/5 years. If that is true then I may consider taking it
Think about this for a moment you are more worried about the long term effects a vaccine that no part of it can pass through the cell membrane than a RNA virus of unknown origin that by its very nature goes inside your cells and teaches them to replicate the virus. It is literally in the cell hanging out with your DNA.
Nature has one job and it is to try to kill you because trying to kill you makes sure that if you survive her attempt you are among the strong. If it weren't for medicine fighting back the chance are very high you would be part of her body count, whether you think so or not.
Posted on 8/23/21 at 12:04 pm to jcaz
Well ... there's clearly a reason. You may not agree with it, but the reasoning is fairly obvious. I don't even see why this is such a big deal. Your employer can tell what to wear, decide not to hire you based on tattoos, tell you to get a hair cut and a million other things that are far more trivial.
Posted on 8/23/21 at 12:05 pm to Duke
quote:
You clearly didnt do it well if thats your conclusion.
Your math is likely very different from mine, every person is different. I went and mined the raw data, including all of the other conditions people had for deaths and hospitalizations. It is weird that you don't 1) support someone's choice to do their own risk analysis, and then 2) are basically crapping on science by saying I arrived at an incorrect conclusion.
Posted on 8/23/21 at 12:05 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
Nature has one job and it is to try to kill you because trying to kill you makes sure that if you survive her attempt you are among the strong.
Huh???
quote:
If it weren't for medicine fighting back the chance are very high you would be part of her body count, whether you think so or not.
For a virus with a 99+% survival rate?
Come on, man.
Posted on 8/23/21 at 12:06 pm to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
So how many companies are breaking their current terms of employment by requiring vaccination?
How many contracts mentioned vaccines if you weren’t in healthcare?
Sounds like they need to terminate their current contract and write a new one
Employment via contract is pretty rare in the South and in general really. Most actual employment contracts have boiler plate that you are required to abide by company policy. Company policy changes all the time and as long is it is written and codified under whatever corporate rules they have it now applies to contracted employees with that sort of language in their contract.
Posted on 8/23/21 at 12:08 pm to calcotron
quote:
It is weird that you don't 1) support someone's choice to do their own risk analysis
I never said that. I said if you came to the conclusion its less risk to be not vaccinated, you did something wrong.
quote:
are basically crapping on science by saying I arrived at an incorrect conclusion.
What do you think peer review is for?
Posted on 8/23/21 at 12:09 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Most people have never run a small business. They have absolutely no clue what it takes in the way of regulations and legalities.
quote:
The fact he knows this is hurting small business and touting it says a lot about the guy though. Jesus. Barriers to entry and commerce help large corporations who are well capitalized. They crush small business.
Brother I bitch about every regulation on business. Every single one. I am extremely principled in my stances unlike most on this and PT. Stout is kind of assuming or alluding to I may support other bullshite and barriers of entry....and I don't, never have and never fricking will no matter who is president. You can read my past post on the civil rights act, Ada etc. I take the libertarian/ free market approach everytime.
I didn't say I support any business mandating the vaccine, in fact I don't, but I do support their right to be able to if they so choose.
I specifically said a couple pages back that I don't not support government translates, tax breaks for those that mandate or any type of government choosing a winner.
I like you Roger but you essentially pulled a snippet completely out of context and are trying to use it against me and then say it says alot about the guy. I could say the same about you using a snippet of the conversation instead of reading my post.
Bottom line is if stouts competitor choices to mandate the vaccine...that is their choice snd well within the personal property rights of the business owner. As always with the free market, stout should take advantage of that if at all possible.
Let the free market do free market things. If it hurts a small business well they made a choice.
My stance is to respect the personal property rights of the business owner. Disregarding that is how you end up with the government telling a baker he must make a cake with a dick on it etc.
Posted on 8/23/21 at 12:09 pm to tigersports4
quote:
I see, I am not trying to argue one way or the other. I am asking for information. Its is hard to find anything worth a shite on google.
I am not trying to be an arse and you will get lots of good information here BUT have you talked to YOUR doctor since I assume you trust them? If you don't have a PCP I get it a lot of people don't, lots of people are healthy enough going seems like a waste of time and money, it was me until I married someone in medicine.
Posted on 8/23/21 at 12:10 pm to stout
quote:
Either the Government can interfere with your legal business or they can't.
I been pretty clear in this thread and plenty of others....they don't have the constitutional right to interfere imo. And I do not support it at all.
quote:
I don't disagree with businesses being able to mandate vaccines if they choose to do so FWIW but if that's the case then let's repeal the anti-smoking law in LA for example and let the businesses choose if they want to allow that or not.
I agree amongst many other items. Let the business choose who they want to serve. And I fricking hate smoking.
But smoking is a little different than other issues due to second hand smoke but employees and patrons have a choice not to go there or work there if they don't like the smoke.
This post was edited on 8/23/21 at 12:18 pm
Posted on 8/23/21 at 12:12 pm to tigersports4
quote:
But you are a naive person to think something developed in less than a year, tested, the rubber stamped would have nothing wrong with it.
Does that naivete apply to the vast majority of doctors that took a vaccine and recommended their family and friend take them?
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