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Message
Do you believe in manifest destiny?
Posted on 4/11/19 at 11:34 pm
Posted on 4/11/19 at 11:34 pm
As an educator myself, I always believed that manifest destiny was truly an American principle, one that was entrenched in the American persona many moons ago. However, I recently partook in a live Socratic seminar in which one of the participants presented an extremely well thought out conspiracy that was welcomed with a warm applause by the audience.
He said that manifest destiny was merely a microcosm of early American socialism in that it was inspired solely by (and hitherto solely for) the great pioneers of the 1800s. If manifest destiny was inspired by the government as a means to promote the American Dream, then why was it the pioneers who initiated action and not the government? He therefore argued that manifest destiny did not truly exist, but was rather a myth created by those who put the manifestation into action. What say the OT?
He said that manifest destiny was merely a microcosm of early American socialism in that it was inspired solely by (and hitherto solely for) the great pioneers of the 1800s. If manifest destiny was inspired by the government as a means to promote the American Dream, then why was it the pioneers who initiated action and not the government? He therefore argued that manifest destiny did not truly exist, but was rather a myth created by those who put the manifestation into action. What say the OT?
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Posted on 4/11/19 at 11:36 pm to lsudave1
Having a mythology/moral justification behind conquest or settlement is pretty common and perfectly understandable.
It is real because it happened, but it wouldn't be had it failed.
It is real because it happened, but it wouldn't be had it failed.
Posted on 4/11/19 at 11:38 pm to lsudave1
No. People make history. It isn’t made
Posted on 4/11/19 at 11:38 pm to lsudave1
I always assumed westward migration was motivated by gold and free farmland.
Posted on 4/11/19 at 11:39 pm to jim712
But what is history? Can we confine history to something that is just created by people when Brahman encompasses the whole universe?
Posted on 4/11/19 at 11:40 pm to lsudave1
We're clearly fated to admit there is no such thing as manifest destiny
Posted on 4/11/19 at 11:42 pm to lsudave1
No, but I remember from college that the Gadsden purchase was the last transaction in the US version of the concept.
Posted on 4/11/19 at 11:42 pm to lsudave1
That’s a whole lot of trying to sound smart and saying nothing of substance. How can a concept be a myth? The term was either used or it was not. The merits of whether it was morally sound is another matter.
It’s like saying Christianity is a myth. No Christianity exists. Whether it’s principles and beliefs are true or not is another matter.
It’s like saying Christianity is a myth. No Christianity exists. Whether it’s principles and beliefs are true or not is another matter.
Posted on 4/11/19 at 11:44 pm to TheWalrus
It’s not that the concept was a myth, he’s arguing that the concept was never truly put into action by the government and the term was misappropriated.
This post was edited on 4/11/19 at 11:45 pm
Posted on 4/11/19 at 11:47 pm to lsudave1
No, I don't believe in it. I think it is a product of Greed and it corrupts individuals because of the influence of institutions and national desires. You could say that many of our problems today are a result of that type of thinking.
I subscribe to Transcendentalism, because I believe in the power of individualism and personal freedom of all people.
"A core belief of transcendentalism is in the inherent goodness of people and nature. Adherents believe that society and its institutions have corrupted the purity of the individual, and they have faith that people are at their best when truly "self-reliant" and independent.
Transcendentalism emphasizes subjective intuition over objective empiricism.
Adherents believe that individuals are capable of generating completely original insights with little attention and deference to past masters." Wiki
Did Manifest Destiny occur? Sure.
Am I a fan of the concept? No
Because Uncle Sam took advantage of the Transcendentalism movement of the 1810's & 1820's. People wanted their own land, to be self-reliant, free of Rulers. So the government used that sentiment to promote western expansion in the 1840's. Once enough pioneers/settlers were in place... Uncle Sam came in and said "Hey, we'll make you State". Thus defeating the original intent of the independent settlers.
I subscribe to Transcendentalism, because I believe in the power of individualism and personal freedom of all people.
"A core belief of transcendentalism is in the inherent goodness of people and nature. Adherents believe that society and its institutions have corrupted the purity of the individual, and they have faith that people are at their best when truly "self-reliant" and independent.
Transcendentalism emphasizes subjective intuition over objective empiricism.
Adherents believe that individuals are capable of generating completely original insights with little attention and deference to past masters." Wiki
Did Manifest Destiny occur? Sure.
Am I a fan of the concept? No
quote:
If manifest destiny was inspired by the government as a means to promote the American Dream, then why was it the pioneers who initiated action and not the government?
Because Uncle Sam took advantage of the Transcendentalism movement of the 1810's & 1820's. People wanted their own land, to be self-reliant, free of Rulers. So the government used that sentiment to promote western expansion in the 1840's. Once enough pioneers/settlers were in place... Uncle Sam came in and said "Hey, we'll make you State". Thus defeating the original intent of the independent settlers.
This post was edited on 4/12/19 at 12:24 am
Posted on 4/11/19 at 11:51 pm to lsudave1
That’s what you write down when you put it on a ship.
Posted on 4/11/19 at 11:53 pm to lsudave1
First, explain what you think manifest destiny is. Then, given government policies at the time explain why manifest destiny may have been a viable belief.
Doing that will help you understand that people, in those times, truly believed it was their right to settle the West.
Doing that will help you understand that people, in those times, truly believed it was their right to settle the West.
Posted on 4/12/19 at 12:14 am to lsudave1
quote:
As an educator myself, I always believed that manifest destiny was truly an American principle, one that was entrenched in the American persona many moons ago.
quote:
If manifest destiny was inspired by the government as a means to promote the American Dream, then why was it the pioneers who initiated action and not the government?
He therefore argued that manifest destiny did not truly exist, but was rather a myth created by those who put the manifestation into action.
So this American principle and persona of manifest destiny only truly existed if the government fostered it? This is government education in action. True American principle and persona was that of the people, not the government.
Why, in your mind, can’t it be American principle and persona unless the government is involved?
ETA there is so much to unpack here. Regarding “why didn’t the government do it?...” because government was not a broad, massive, self-perpetuating monster back then. Government wasn’t about directing/forcing citizens to do things. It was a voluntary group devoted to protecting property and freedom.
This post was edited on 4/12/19 at 12:53 am
Posted on 4/12/19 at 5:12 am to OnTheGeaux
quote:
A core belief of transcendentalism is in the inherent goodness of people and nature. Adherents believe that society and its institutions have corrupted the purity of the individual, and they have faith that people are at their best when truly "self-reliant" and independent.
Well, this is a naive and actually quite dangerous philosophy.
quote:
Adherents believe that individuals are capable of generating completely original insights with little attention and deference to past masters." Wiki
Maybe the top 1%. Have you met many people? Been to Walmart lately?
No, people are mostly intrinsically social beings. We have evolved to rely on that social interaction. That’s why we require so much instruction and care to reach maturity. How to hunt, cook, clothe ourselves, birth children, tend to wounds etc is all dependent on group knowledge over time.
quote:
Transcendentalism emphasizes subjective intuition over objective empiricism.
You’d fit right in with the neo-marxists relativists. “MY truth is more important than THE truth, which I conveniently assume does not exist if it suits my argument and my will for power.”Posted on 4/12/19 at 5:56 am to lsudave1
Recent research has shown the empirical evidence for globalization of corporate innovation is very limited. And as a corollary, the market for technologies is shrinking.
As a world leader, it is important for America to provide systematic research grants for our scientists. I believe there will always be a need for us to have a well-articulated innovation policy with emphasis on human resource development. Thank you.
As a world leader, it is important for America to provide systematic research grants for our scientists. I believe there will always be a need for us to have a well-articulated innovation policy with emphasis on human resource development. Thank you.
This post was edited on 4/12/19 at 5:58 am
Posted on 4/12/19 at 5:57 am to lsudave1
Simple, it was God's will.
Posted on 4/12/19 at 6:30 am to lsudave1
(no message)
This post was edited on 4/12/19 at 6:43 am
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