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Message
re: Derek Chauvin trial - GUILTY ON ALL CHARGES. Update: His sentencing is today
Posted on 4/15/21 at 8:59 pm to Rebel
Posted on 4/15/21 at 8:59 pm to Rebel
quote:
The best part of yesterday’s testimony was when the state knew they had a “gotcha” question.
Reminds me of the time I was deposed and one lawyer asked me if I had used an assistant to do part of the exam on a patient. When I said I did the entire exam myself he was befuddled and had to abandon his plan of attack. Then after I destroyed the other side’s expert witness, they asked to settle.
This post was edited on 4/15/21 at 9:28 pm
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Posted on 4/15/21 at 9:52 pm to Yellerhammer5
quote:Hey Doc, can you explain how someone dies of asphyxiation, and ends up with an O2 sat of 98% in the ER?
Carboxyhemoglobin is reported in percentage of hemoglobin in the blood bound by CO. He meant an increase of 10-18% in the amount of total hemoglobin in the blood bound by CO. Carboxyhemoglobin is not measured more precisely than a whole number and it would never be necessary anyway as changes that small would be meaningless.
Posted on 4/15/21 at 10:55 pm to greygoose
Not a doctor, but from my limited ER experience it seems that once the brain/organs are deprived of oxygen (hypoxic) the damage is irreversible. His most probable cause of death seems to be asphyxiation. The hypoxic damage to his organs.. most importantly his brain.. seems to have occurred before even being loaded into the ambulance and before resuscitation efforts were initiated. Off the top of my head I believe after around 8-10 minutes without blood circulation the brain is damaged so severely that if the patient does begin breathing and circulating blood on their own they are going to be in a vegetative state/comatose. So this would explain how he seems to have died from asphyxiation, but to acknowledge the oxygen saturation portion of your question.. Without help of the life-saving machines such as the respiration machine & the machine providing chest compressions Floyd did not supply meaningful blood flow to his organs. With the help of the machines, he had meaningful circulation and respiration. The machines forced oxygen into his lungs similar to that of breathing so oxygen could get to his tissues. The respiration machine would be the reason his oxygen saturation was within normal limits. Although his O2 sat was normal at the time of death the irreversible vital tissue/organ damage was already sustained from the 10ish minutes where he became unresponsive until CPR began. Again, not a doctor and may be talking out off my arse. Any OT docs please fix whatever I got wrong.
Posted on 4/15/21 at 11:31 pm to BatonScrewedTiger
Yeah, there are plenty of post cardiac arrest brain dead people with great vitals on the breathing machine.
Posted on 4/16/21 at 12:08 am to cwil177
All that stuff confuses me, I can only imagine how the jury feels at times.
Posted on 4/16/21 at 1:17 am to momentoftruth87
I could only watch the first two days of the trial. Can someone please explain, in a nutshell, what Chauvin's defense is? Did his attorney bring up the fact that we are seeing videos from a different viewpoint than Chauvin experienced? He didn't see what the people on the sidewalk saw, ie Floyd's facial expressions. He was only seeing the back or side of his head. Also, curious if the possibility of temporary insanity would have been a way to go? Chauvin's eyes and facial expression looked a little off. Almost like he was in a confused trance for a couple minutes.
Posted on 4/16/21 at 6:18 am to roadGator
quote:
Has anyone dared bring up the amount of weight that was or was not on the drug addict’s back/shoulder in the trial?
How many times are you going to ask the same question in this thread?
Posted on 4/16/21 at 7:40 am to BatonScrewedTiger
I thought I heard “someone” say that there were no signs of brain hypoxia??? I remember thinking wow that’s good for the defense. 
Posted on 4/16/21 at 8:00 am to greygoose
quote:
Hey Doc, can you explain how someone dies of asphyxiation, and ends up with an O2 sat of 98% in the ER?
How did Nelson not think of this. No matter what he died of he was without a pulse for at least 5 minutes before getting to the hospital. No way his O2 SATs were 98%
Posted on 4/16/21 at 8:04 am to BatonScrewedTiger
quote:
Floyd did not supply meaningful blood flow to his organs. With the help of the machines, he had meaningful circulation and respiration. The machines forced oxygen into his lungs similar to that of breathing so oxygen could get to his tissues. The respiration machine would be the reason his oxygen saturation was within normal limits. Although his O2 sat was normal at the time of death the irreversible vital tissue/organ damage was already sustained from the 10ish minutes where he became unresponsive until CPR began. Again, not a doctor and may be talking out off my arse. Any OT docs please fix whatever I got wrong.
You got pretty much all of this wrong.
The prosecutors main witness doctor Tobin said Floyd died 5 minutes into chauvin being on his neck. That’s 5 minutes of a dead body before EMS even gets to him.
No chance in hell his oxygen sats are anywhere near the 90s at any point after that
Posted on 4/16/21 at 8:17 am to WaWaWeeWa
quote:I'm an RT and a former medic, and I couldn't get my mind wrapped around this. Even if they were mechanically ventilating, if the the heart isn't pumping, how are you circulating oxygenated blood? As I sit here typing this, I doubt my O2 sat is 98%, so how did they get this on a patient in cardiac arrest?
How did Nelson not think of this. No matter what he died of he was without a pulse for at least 5 minutes before getting to the hospital. No way his O2 SATs were 98%
Posted on 4/16/21 at 8:56 am to greygoose
quote:
As I sit here typing this, I doubt my O2 sat is 98%, so how did they get this on a patient in cardiac arrest?
Blasting the patient with oxygen, darker skin tone, error recording the result, faulty sensor...take your pick.
ED records are usually pretty spotty for good reason as it’s more important to try to revive the patient than write a perfect note.
However, I do agree that when GF died, he was likely lingering for some time as is almost always the case unless you die in spectacular fashion.
Posted on 4/16/21 at 9:07 am to Yellerhammer5
quote:No pulse at the scene. ABG drawn in the ER, probably from the femoral artery. Are you saying the lab machine was wrong? The only logical explanation is, he had a pulse, and arrested at the hospital.........due to OD.
Blasting the patient with oxygen, darker skin tone, error r
quote:This was 98% from an ABG, not pulse oximetry. Skin tone has nothing to do with ABG results.
darker skin tone
Tell me again, what kind of medicine you practice?
This post was edited on 4/16/21 at 9:10 am
Posted on 4/16/21 at 9:22 am to greygoose
quote:
This was 98% from an ABG, not pulse oximetry. Skin tone has nothing to do with ABG results.
I don’t recall the specifics of the ED records, so I assumed it was a pulse ox reading. Yes, an ABG should be much more accurate.
I’m missing your point though - you’re saying high oxygen levels in an ED setting support a fentanyl overdose over asphyxia?
This post was edited on 4/16/21 at 9:25 am
Posted on 4/16/21 at 9:32 am to Yellerhammer5
If he was dead on the ground for 5 minutes before the paramedics even start working on him and he was supposedly hypoxic for 5 minutes before that there is no logical way his oxygen saturation is 98% when he gets to the ED just from chest compressions and a bag valve mask
That’s the prosecutions story.
Dr. Tobin said he could determine the moment he died from the asphyxia.
That’s the prosecutions story.
Dr. Tobin said he could determine the moment he died from the asphyxia.
This post was edited on 4/16/21 at 9:33 am
Posted on 4/16/21 at 9:35 am to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
If he was dead on the ground for 5 minutes before the paramedics even start working on him and he was supposedly hypoxic for 5 minutes before that there is no logical way his oxygen saturation is 98% when he gets to the ED just from chest compressions and a bag valve mask
Why didn't Nelson argue this? Sounds big...
Posted on 4/16/21 at 9:37 am to WaWaWeeWa
quote:
If he was dead on the ground for 5 minutes before the paramedics even start working on him and he was supposedly hypoxic for 5 minutes before that there is no logical way his oxygen saturation is 98% when he gets to the ED just from chest compressions and a bag valve mask
Agreed that is seems unlikely. However, asphyxia doesn’t just cause instant death so I don’t think that information supports any one factor over another one.
quote:
That’s the prosecutions story.
Dr. Tobin said he could determine the moment he died from the asphyxia.
And he’s full of shite on that. However, the jury will probably eat it up because he threw out a lot of numbers and specifics which will impress them.
Posted on 4/16/21 at 9:38 am to Yellerhammer5
quote:The whole day yesterday, was all about the BLOOD GAS REPORT. Did you miss that too?
I don’t recall the specifics of the ED records, so I assumed it was a pulse ox reading. Yes, an ABG should be much more accurate.
I’m missing your point though - you’re saying high oxygen levels in an ED setting support a fentanyl overdose over asphyxia?
I thought I read that you are a physician. So, I'm asking, how does GF have an ABG, O2 sat of 98% with no pulse? How is it possible to achieve a 98% sat, with no pulse, and attribute the death to asphyxiation? Chest compression are not very effective at circulating blood, compared to the heart. That leaves only two possibilities. GF did not die of manual asphyxiation, or the ABG result were horribly wrong.
Posted on 4/16/21 at 9:40 am to JDPndahizzy
quote:
Why didn't Nelson argue this? Sounds big..
Not sure. Maybe there are details about the testing we don’t know about.
Posted on 4/16/21 at 9:42 am to JDPndahizzy
quote:He's a lawyer, not a medical professional. Apparently, none of the medical experts, prosecution and defense, caught that either. Yesterday brought all this to light with the sharp turn towards possible carbon monoxide poisoning. That's the first time I heard the ABG results.
Why didn't Nelson argue this? Sounds big...
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