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re: Deputies arrest 4 in LSU student Madison Brooks case

Posted on 1/31/23 at 4:35 pm to
Posted by HodsonTiger13
Member since Jan 2023
737 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 4:35 pm to
They don't need the BAC 'tossed' - they just need it to be trumped by the video - what we've seen outside the bar and what we have yet to see inside the car.

The 'experts' will say that BAC wasn't accurate (google it) and it'll be up to jurors to believe their take over some kooky science.

Didn't you watch O.J.'s trial? Forensics, science? Nah. Jurors aren't impressed.

Posted by JudgeHolden
Gila River
Member since Jan 2008
18566 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 4:37 pm to
quote:

Not a legal guy, but I think the defense is gonna be butting their heads trying to get the BAC tossed.


This is a very general take from having dealt with a lot of technical evidence.

Science people tend to be very black and white. They are absolutely convinced that the way they have always done it is the way to do it. They don't see potential gaps in the paperwork. And the paperwork is usually technical and confusing to a lay person.

Something as simple as having the time wrong on the machine because nobody adjusted it for DST can call technical evidence into question. "How could you have a blood sample from her timed in an hour before she was hit by a car, Mr. EMT?"

And if the technical evidence does not match common sense experience, juries will readily disregard it. This is why the video of her "jog" is important to the defense.

That said, I know nothing about the procedures for collecting and performing BAC. I'm just saying that experience tells me that technical evidence often has at least some warts.
This post was edited on 1/31/23 at 4:43 pm
Posted by ell_13
Member since Apr 2013
88151 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 4:38 pm to
You keep bringing up OJ. That was 30 years ago and the DNA stuff was new and the crime scene cops absolutely fricked things up. We’ve come a long way since then and there are have a ton of high profile cases where forensics come into play and convince juries of guilt or innocence. Hell, tons of cold cases get brought back due to DNA evidence and people get sent to jail over it.
This post was edited on 1/31/23 at 4:39 pm
Posted by JudgeHolden
Gila River
Member since Jan 2008
18566 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 4:40 pm to
quote:

Didn't you watch O.J.'s trial? Forensics, science? Nah. Jurors aren't impressed.


This has to be addressed every time.

The OJ trial does not teach you anything except that crappy prosecutors get crappy results. You should never read anything more into it than that.
Posted by HodsonTiger13
Member since Jan 2023
737 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 4:41 pm to
The defense lawyers already said they'd question the forensics and use the video to do so. So, regardless of how far we've come, it's back to plug in doubt based on pre-existing bias = problem for prosecution.

But I'm no expert on BAC. I just did a bit of googling to see how it is challenged and did stay at a Holiday Inn.
Posted by ell_13
Member since Apr 2013
88151 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 4:46 pm to
They’re going to question everything.

I’m at a courtyard.
Posted by AlwysATgr
Member since Apr 2008
21209 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 4:48 pm to
Understood, and IDK how a medical lab operates either.

Just going off the fat, bald guy's notes.

But if the tech had his cert, the instruments in cal, and procedures followed, gonna be uphill, upwind fight to get the BAC# dismissed.
Posted by JudgeHolden
Gila River
Member since Jan 2008
18566 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 4:49 pm to
quote:

I’m at a courtyard.



La Quinta.

Headed to gym and then back to work. Catch y'all on the flip flop.
Posted by ryanlsu
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2005
1395 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 4:57 pm to
actually the oj trial is now used in law school when talking about jury nullification.
Posted by lctiger
Member since Oct 2003
3432 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 5:09 pm to
It’s not correct, ok Mr Defense lawyer, the BAC is really higher than this reading and you’ve won the argument, she was even more drunk than we thought
Posted by AlwysATgr
Member since Apr 2008
21209 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 5:17 pm to
Correct. The reported BAC (.319) would be the lower bound.

Now, it would be interesting if the four gave her alcohol after the rapes, then that might help their consent argument but might also (likely to?) bring them to account for her death.
Posted by JudgeHolden
Gila River
Member since Jan 2008
18566 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 5:22 pm to
quote:

actually the oj trial is now used in law school when talking about jury nullification.


Nullification my arse.

The prosecutors ignored their jury consultants because Clark thought she knew more about how black women tended than the expert.

They failed to get in a suicide note, basically a confession.

They failed to get in a receipt for a disguise bought before the murder.

The closing was terrible.

Prosecutorial malpractice, not nullification.
Posted by lctiger
Member since Oct 2003
3432 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 5:25 pm to
I feel the key to prosecution of this case will be high school boys phones containing bragging that will essentially be a confession
Posted by HodsonTiger13
Member since Jan 2023
737 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 5:26 pm to
Yes, it was discussed earlier. If they drank in the car, could implicate them for negligent homicide.

But imply the BAC may be lower at time of rape.

But, according to reports, Madison didn't drink for the last hour she was in the bar. So it was going down then (.016 per hour said one science paper) and went down further as they were in vehicle. Likely closer to .335 at time of rape.

Posted by ell_13
Member since Apr 2013
88151 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 5:29 pm to
quote:

They failed to get in a suicide note, basically a confession.
The first thing he says in the note is that he didn’t do it.
Posted by HodsonTiger13
Member since Jan 2023
737 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 5:33 pm to
Or after news hit of her death what did they text to each other then?


Or about going to the police?

Kids text by instinct now. They think 'delete' deletes the text. Don't understand all those are saved and will be seen and read - or have been already - by prosecutors.


Posted by ryanlsu
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2005
1395 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 5:35 pm to
I concur that the prosecution was incompetent. But I watched that trial, I dont see how anyone could have found him not guilty. I think most of the jurors felt he was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Thinking he's guilty and still voting non-guilty is the definition of jury nullification. Wasn't meant to be an argument. Im in law school now. It's a fact that they talk about the OJ case when they discuss jury nullification.
Posted by ell_13
Member since Apr 2013
88151 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 5:35 pm to
If they communicated via Snapchat, it won’t be stored on the phone or cloud.
This post was edited on 1/31/23 at 5:35 pm
Posted by HodsonTiger13
Member since Jan 2023
737 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 5:41 pm to
Drawing parallels to this case:

We had the Sterling death the divided the city. Protests and outrage. They had Rodney King.

White victim here. White victims (2) there.

3 black and 1 white defendant but 2 black defendants facing the most serious charges.

Crying white family of victim. Crying black mother of the accused.

NAACP already involved. Black lawyers for the 3 black defendants and 1 white lawyer for 1 white defendant.

How is the jury not going to see this is a 'race case' and vote racial lines?

One of the jurors in the O.J. case, when walking out post verdict, gave Johnny Cochran the 'black power' fist salute.

Think there was every any chance they'd vote guilty? Go look at the documentary which interviewed some of them.

Washington's conviction might change things.

No word on the new charges someone earlier today said were coming.





Posted by JDPndahizzy
JDP
Member since Nov 2013
6975 posts
Posted on 1/31/23 at 5:41 pm to
quote:

My take. People posting frequently on Facebook are not representative of what the jury pool will be

My take is that the jury pool will consist of some of those people but not the selected jury. Hopefully!
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