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Message
re: Dealerships Forging Income
Posted on 8/15/15 at 4:36 pm to BigB0882
Posted on 8/15/15 at 4:36 pm to BigB0882
quote:
I don't think my income was altered but I will say that when I bought my car they told me my credit score was much higher than what I had been told online just a week before. I was in shock. It was a good thing and it only helped me with lower interest so I don't think the dealership faked it as it wouldn't gain them anything but I found the discrepancy very odd.
There are different credit scoring models that weigh different types of debt differently. It's not just one score, it's a set of data that gets analyzed differently depending on the model used to score the data.
0
Posted on 8/15/15 at 4:39 pm to Lsupimp
quote:
An appraiser would ask a loan officer "What value do you need" and presto, two guys get paid and another gets a home
That's not how it works. if the comps don't support it then it doesn't matter what either of them say and the appraiser gets paid either way.
National mortgage companies keep a pool of appraisers on rotation so that the local loan company isn't selecting them and developing that type of relationship and it keeps them from showing favoritism.
Speaking of national lending institutions, just because an appraiser does the appraisal doesn't mean that's the final word. It still has to pass underwriting and in-house valuation. If there is any doubt to it then they will ask for a second appraisal and toss the first or use the two for an average.
All of that on top of the fact that it takes years to become an appraiser and they could lose their licenses at the drop of a hat makes your scenario BS.
Posted on 8/15/15 at 4:44 pm to TSLG
Uh, I think they´d be in a world of shite, were they to get audited.
I for one, would be hacked off, were I to find out they exaggerated my income, or showed a non-existent POI.
I for one, would be hacked off, were I to find out they exaggerated my income, or showed a non-existent POI.
Posted on 8/15/15 at 4:46 pm to stout
quote:
That's not how it works. if the comps don't support it
Fudge factor ceiling? 15%? 20%?
Posted on 8/15/15 at 4:50 pm to Dandy Lion
The only time I can recall there really being a "fudge factor" was during the peak of the subprime madness and even then it wasn't 15-20%. The values were just rising due to supply and demand.
The subprime crash is another reason why an appraiser would not get away with it nowadays. Things are looked at a lot more closely by the underwriting department and whoever is insuring the loan.
The subprime crash is another reason why an appraiser would not get away with it nowadays. Things are looked at a lot more closely by the underwriting department and whoever is insuring the loan.
Posted on 8/15/15 at 4:51 pm to TSLG
quote:
if you need to fudge your income by 100% to get financing for a car then you probably shouldn't be getting it.
Posted on 8/15/15 at 5:00 pm to stout
quote:
That's not how it works. if the comps don't support it then it doesn't matter what either of them say and the appraiser gets paid either way.
You are talking about NOW. I specifically said the Subprime fiasco, circa 2000-2007. I don't THINK it happened. I KNOW it happened. Thousands of times every day across America. I know a specific subprime Mortgage Boiler Room operation in BR that kept lists of "friendly appraisers" across America who would give the mortgage officer the value they wanted, and the loan would then go to sham-psuedo UW where it would be rubber-stamped for approval.
You can call what happened BS all day long. That doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Posted on 8/15/15 at 5:10 pm to 3deadtrolls
Everyone with half a brain when it comes to business finance will pad or forge numbers some to make a better end product.
It happens in all lines of work
It happens in all lines of work
Posted on 8/15/15 at 5:23 pm to Fat and Happy
Most people don't realize that millions of Life Insurance policies are written every year without physical inspection, blood work, urine or even a phone interview. They literally TAKE THE WORD OF THE WRITING AGENT and do a quick scrip check. Do you have an idea how many "non-smokers" there are out there that smoke a pack a day or how many 280 lb people suddenly "lose" 40 lbs the week a policy is written?
And don't get me started about the "Financial Services" Industry. There is as much graft as there is people. As long as the parties arrive at the decision that PROFIT is more important than comprehensive PROCESS, this will occur everywhere. People fudge when money is involved. I'm convinced virtually every industry is crooked, and honest men are harder and harder to find. It's pretty easy to compromise ones self and once you do it it's easier the next time, and pretty soon you are a scumbag.
And don't get me started about the "Financial Services" Industry. There is as much graft as there is people. As long as the parties arrive at the decision that PROFIT is more important than comprehensive PROCESS, this will occur everywhere. People fudge when money is involved. I'm convinced virtually every industry is crooked, and honest men are harder and harder to find. It's pretty easy to compromise ones self and once you do it it's easier the next time, and pretty soon you are a scumbag.
Posted on 8/15/15 at 5:45 pm to BigB0882
quote:
I don't think my income was altered but I will say that when I bought my car they told me my credit score was much higher than what I had been told online just a week before. I was in shock. It was a good thing and it only helped me with lower interest so I don't think the dealership faked it as it wouldn't gain them anything but I found the discrepancy very odd.
That could be part of the win for the dealership. Maybe they need that better rate to hit your payment after getting their 2 points of reserve.
Posted on 8/15/15 at 10:35 pm to TSLG
It is much more widespread than people in this thread believe. Subprime auto finance is in a huge bubble. Lenders are flocking into the market and giving money away to get good yields. Many waive proof of income especially for large down payments. This is common for many people with 550< FICO scores also. It is easy to increase income by $3-500 when you know at worst the lender will just call to verify employment.
Posted on 8/15/15 at 10:50 pm to TSLG
People who work for commission can not be trusted. Ever.
Posted on 8/16/15 at 10:37 am to lsulaker
quote:
It is much more widespread than people in this thread believe. Subprime auto finance is in a huge bubble. Lenders are flocking into the market and giving money away to get good yields. Many waive proof of income especially for large down payments. This is common for many people with 550< FICO scores also. It is easy to increase income by $3-500 when you know at worst the lender will just call to verify employment.
Finally, someone who has personal knowledge. It blows my mind that people don't realize that this is going on.
I don't think they'd believe me if I said that 90% of the deals at some places have some form of fraud involved. I'd be willing to bet that more than 50% of the the dealerships loved by the lower socioeconomic class is doing it in some form.
I just think there is too much money involved to stop it. The finance, automobile, and insurance industries are very powerful. They won't let you stop the cash cow.
Do you think it's a coincidence that the car people, who flock to every car question on td, wont touch this shite with a 10 foot pole? Lol.
This post was edited on 8/16/15 at 10:40 am
Posted on 8/16/15 at 10:38 am to TSLG
quote:
Salesman: How much do you make?
You: $1600 per month.
Salesman: Oh ok.
CREDIT APP: INCOME: $3300 per month
BANK: Providing proof of income as a stipulation for funding of the deal.
Salesman: Hey, You. The bank wants a copy of your pay stub to verify your income.
You: Oh...ok. I'll send you a picture now.
PHOTOSHOP: $1600 sure does look like $3300 to me.
Understand now?
No. Why would they do this and who gives a frick?
Posted on 8/16/15 at 10:44 am to Breesus
quote:
No. Why would they do this and who gives a frick?
You will when the bubble burst and your tax money is used to bail out all these "innocent" industries.
So, how are yalls sales? Lol.
Posted on 8/16/15 at 10:44 am to TSLG
how does this affect you?
agree with the poster above, why should I or anyone else care?
so a bunch of cars get fraudulently financed...I doubt that this will affect my life in any way shape or form
if you have even halfway decent credit an a reasonable income you aren't paying any interest anyway
agree with the poster above, why should I or anyone else care?
so a bunch of cars get fraudulently financed...I doubt that this will affect my life in any way shape or form
if you have even halfway decent credit an a reasonable income you aren't paying any interest anyway
Posted on 8/16/15 at 10:47 am to TSLG
quote:
You will when the bubble burst and your tax money is used to bail out all these "innocent" industries.
No I won't. You're telling me there's a big looming car loan bubble out there that will affect my life?
quote:
, how are yalls sales?
Moron.
Posted on 8/16/15 at 10:50 am to Breesus
I love smoking and reading through threads like these. You can sorta..imagine everyone's voices.
Posted on 8/16/15 at 10:50 am to TSLG
quote:
It blows my mind that people don't realize that this is going on.
I don't think they'd believe me if I said that 90% of the deals at some places have some form of fraud involved
There's a difference between not knowing and not giving a frick.
So some poor dude can drive a car for a while then default, get the car repossessed, then some other poor dude buys it at a repo auction.
Explain why I should give two squirts of piss about the squabbles of the petty plebians.
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