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Started By
Message
Dealerships Forging Income
Posted on 8/15/15 at 2:40 pm
Posted on 8/15/15 at 2:40 pm
How widespread is this practice? The more I'm around, the more I think this happens at a large majority of dealerships.
Do you think more than 50% of dealerships juice the income on the credit app and forge the POI when the bank requests proof?
Do you think more than 50% of dealerships juice the income on the credit app and forge the POI when the bank requests proof?
16
Posted on 8/15/15 at 2:41 pm to TSLG
I have no clue what the hell you are talking about??
Posted on 8/15/15 at 2:44 pm to TSLG
(no message)
Posted on 8/15/15 at 2:45 pm to TSLG
I don't think it happens near as often as it used to but yeah it still happens.
Posted on 8/15/15 at 2:46 pm to threeputt
Salesman: How much do you make?
You: $1600 per month.
Salesman: Oh ok.
CREDIT APP: INCOME: $3300 per month
BANK: Providing proof of income as a stipulation for funding of the deal.
Salesman: Hey, You. The bank wants a copy of your pay stub to verify your income.
You: Oh...ok. I'll send you a picture now.
PHOTOSHOP: $1600 sure does look like $3300 to me.
Understand now?
You: $1600 per month.
Salesman: Oh ok.
CREDIT APP: INCOME: $3300 per month
BANK: Providing proof of income as a stipulation for funding of the deal.
Salesman: Hey, You. The bank wants a copy of your pay stub to verify your income.
You: Oh...ok. I'll send you a picture now.
PHOTOSHOP: $1600 sure does look like $3300 to me.
Understand now?
Posted on 8/15/15 at 3:02 pm to TSLG
I know guys on commission used to use their largest pay stub to make it look like they had a higher yearly income. Can remember someone specifically going car shopping after their first big check with my company. Pretty sure he had sold cars when he was in school. He seemed like the type that would have instructed a customer to bring the highest stub.
Posted on 8/15/15 at 3:18 pm to TSLG
Honestly, this practice would be done more by the consumer. They are the ones that want what they can't afford. The salesman may look the other way, but I highly doubt many would participate in the forgery of documents.
Posted on 8/15/15 at 3:22 pm to TSLG
It happens in every field. That's how we got a lot of the subprime crap. An appraiser would ask a loan officer "What value do you need" and presto, two guys get paid and another gets a home. There is not an industry alive that does not have massive dishonesty, forgery, fraud etc. People like to get paid.
Posted on 8/15/15 at 3:23 pm to Chillini
A trash dick, ex-felon working on commission wouldn't have an incentive to do this?
Posted on 8/15/15 at 3:27 pm to TSLG
Income aside your credit score is most important.
Posted on 8/15/15 at 3:27 pm to TSLG
Are you talking bout saying the applicant is making more than what they actually are so that the bank will process the loan
Posted on 8/15/15 at 3:32 pm to TSLG
A decent finance guy knows if they're going to get stipped for POI based on the credit score and content.
Any person that bumps income on a deal that's going to get stipped for POI is an idiot and anyone who forges POI is a criminal.
Any person that bumps income on a deal that's going to get stipped for POI is an idiot and anyone who forges POI is a criminal.
Posted on 8/15/15 at 3:39 pm to 7thWardTiger
quote:
Are you talking bout saying the applicant is making more than what they actually are so that the bank will process the loan
Yes.
Posted on 8/15/15 at 3:42 pm to chinese58
Most stubs give ytd, so it is pretty easy to calculate average monthly income.
Posted on 8/15/15 at 3:52 pm to TSLG
quote:
Salesman: How much do you make?
You: $1600 per month.
Salesman: Oh ok.
CREDIT APP: INCOME: $3300 per month
BANK: Providing proof of income as a stipulation for funding of the deal.
Salesman: Hey, You. The bank wants a copy of your pay stub to verify your income.
You: Oh...ok. I'll send you a picture now.
PHOTOSHOP: $1600 sure does look like $3300 to me.
Understand now?
Sounds like a poor problem. And if you need to fudge your income by 100% to get financing for a car then you probably shouldn't be getting it.
Posted on 8/15/15 at 4:17 pm to BigPerm30
i used to be an F and I guy at a nissan dealership before I got into computer sales
You do it all the time with people with good credit scores i.e people who don't require stips. If a person has a 725 credit score and they want to buy a Nissan Maxima and they only make 25 thousand a year you can put 40 thousand a year and you know because they got a 725 credit score the bank isn't gonna check especially if the person has an established relationship with that lender. If the guy is trading in a 5 year old Altima and has never missed a payment through nissan, nissian isn't gonna bother even looking at the credit app.
On the other hand, you got a guy with a 525 credit score and you forge stips you could and will be fired and you will lose your ability to finance through that lender which will cost the dealership hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars.
You do it all the time with people with good credit scores i.e people who don't require stips. If a person has a 725 credit score and they want to buy a Nissan Maxima and they only make 25 thousand a year you can put 40 thousand a year and you know because they got a 725 credit score the bank isn't gonna check especially if the person has an established relationship with that lender. If the guy is trading in a 5 year old Altima and has never missed a payment through nissan, nissian isn't gonna bother even looking at the credit app.
On the other hand, you got a guy with a 525 credit score and you forge stips you could and will be fired and you will lose your ability to finance through that lender which will cost the dealership hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars.
Posted on 8/15/15 at 4:25 pm to vengeanceofrain
I don't think my income was altered but I will say that when I bought my car they told me my credit score was much higher than what I had been told online just a week before. I was in shock. It was a good thing and it only helped me with lower interest so I don't think the dealership faked it as it wouldn't gain them anything but I found the discrepancy very odd.
Posted on 8/15/15 at 4:32 pm to TSLG
I've never seen the forging POI done. I'm sure it can happen, but it would be very rare.
Posted on 8/15/15 at 4:33 pm to TSLG
Felony board?
Posted on 8/15/15 at 4:35 pm to TSLG
This is the OT. Most of us have to try to look poorer at dealerships to help negotiations.
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