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Couple exonerated in 25 year old "Satanic Panic" conviction

Posted on 6/24/17 at 9:35 am
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
481186 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 9:35 am
Another sad story in the history of moral panics

quote:

Fran and Dan Keller were each sentenced to 48 years in prison for the alleged sexual assault of a 3-year-old girl who was an occasional drop-in at their home daycare center on the rural outskirts of Austin. The child initially accused Dan of spanking her “like daddy” used to, but under intense and repeated questioning by her mother and a therapist, the story morphed to include claims of rape and orgies involving children. From there, the number of children alleging abuse increased and the accusations grew even more lurid and confounding: The Kellers had sacrificed babies; they held ceremonies in a local graveyard; they put blood in the children’s Kool-Aid; Fran cut off the arm of a gorilla in a local park; they flew the children to Mexico to be sexually assaulted by military officials.


all made up/implanted memories created by a local hysteria over a made up threat (occult Satanism)

quote:

The Austin Police Department refused to release its investigative report on the case, forcing the Chronicle to take the agency to court. We ultimately won the right to full, unredacted access.

After reading the report, it was not hard to understand why the department had fought to keep it secret. It was an ALL-CAPS, run-on-sentence fever dream full of breathless accusations and absent any actual investigation that could prove or disprove the claims. On multiple occasions, the lead investigator took the girl who accused the Kellers to lunch at McDonald’s before setting out for drives in the neighborhood where she would point out locations: Yes, she had been abused there; yes, she recognized the cemetery where the Kellers had killed and buried babies; yes, many of the residents of the quiet neighborhood were in on the hi-jinx. Not once did investigators question the child’s statements.


credibility is a very fine line in prosecutions involving children. their brains are fully malleable and false memories can easily be implanted, even if not done on purpose. children have a natural inclination to go along with the implications adults are presenting (think of it as being "yes men") and while most memory is bullshite, their memories are often COMPLETE bullshite.

young children also have an undeveloped moral center and have no real understanding of the impact of embellishment. this creates a scenario where they want to help the adults, tell a slew of lies, and once they tell the false story has been told/confirmed a few times, it's a "real" memory for them.

quote:

Mouw’s medical opinion had fundamentally changed, offering the Kellers an avenue to challenge their conviction. During a hearing in the summer of 2013, he unequivocally stated that there was no doubt that the child’s genitalia was normal and that he’d gotten it wrong when he examined her in 1991. He said that he tried to reach out to the Austin Police Department after he realized his error but was rebuffed by the detective, who was “convinced they were guilty.”


same paradigm applies to adults. they want to believe children, so when they hear these terrible stories that reinforce some overriding belief system (in this case, that Satanic cults were running wild), they will ignore and oppose information that contradicts their newfound beliefs (confirmation bias in full force).

there is a famous case out of Kansas, i believe, where a childcare center face similar accusations. the children all created this mythology of rape, torture, and all sorts of nasty thing....in a hidden basement located in the facility. investigators believed them and the operators, iirc, were found guilty there, too. later investigation proved that there isn't even a basement in the building. did the children or investigators accept reality? nope

quote:

Without a formal exoneration, the Kellers struggled to rebuild their lives. They were still saddled with a conviction for sexual assault of a child, which made it nearly impossible to find work or a place to live.

these people suffered for DECADES not only with serving time in jail AND not only with a felony conviction (which neuters any economic output), BUT ALSO with a sexual offender registration (which basically ends any real economic viability). imagine how terrible their life has been...for 20 years
Posted by Tshiz
Idaho
Member since Jul 2013
7974 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 9:36 am to
Holy wall of text
Posted by Collegedropout
Where Northern Mexico meets Dixie
Member since May 2017
5202 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 9:38 am to
tl;dr
Posted by OysterPoBoy
City of St. George
Member since Jul 2013
45546 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 9:40 am to
I'm sure they were guilty of something.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
481186 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 9:41 am to
quote:

I'm sure they were guilty of something.



i'm laughing b/c i assume that was a 2nd level joke/troll
Posted by SleauxPlay
Here and there
Member since Oct 2005
3433 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 9:42 am to
quote:

SlowFlowPro


Good stuff.

I think that people don't understand the fundamental deficiencies of eyewitness testimony in general. It's a fascinating area of research. Innocence Project is a wonderful thing.
This post was edited on 6/24/17 at 9:54 am
Posted by dbeck
Member since Nov 2014
29454 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 9:42 am to
It's amazing that these people spent 20 years in prison for a crime they didn't commit and people here are complaining about taking 2 minutes to read a post
Posted by MadDoggyStyle
Member since Feb 2012
3857 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 9:46 am to
Worked with a guy whose wife filed for divorce. As things progressively deteriorated she claimed he had abused their daughter sexually for several years. Psychologists, counselors, and all manner of therapists were brought in to meet with the kid. He could only have supervised visitation for 1 hour every other week. It was so transparent all this was made up as there were never any claims of abuse prior to their breakup but it basically ruined this guys life.
This post was edited on 6/24/17 at 9:48 am
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
481186 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 9:46 am to
quote:

I think that people, in general, don't understand the fundamental deficiencies of eyewitness testimony in general. It's a fascinating area of research. Innocence Project is a wonderful thing.


a foundational moment of my life was taking Memory and Forgetting in undergrad. dude was an expert on exposing "repressed memories" as the fraud that they are and really left an imprint on me about the fallibility of memory. when i try to explain this stuff to some lawyers i work with (who believe eyewitness testimony is the end-all, be-all), they flatly reject it (i think b/c they want to protect the system they've invested so much in)

what's scary is that in most jurisdictions, it's inadmissible to hire an expert on false testimony to testify at trial to discuss the issue. the system itself bends over to protect the false narrative that witness testimony is reliable. if i had "frick you" money this would be an area i'd work on strongly to change our laws to be more rational and reflect reality
Posted by GeauxTigerTM
Member since Sep 2006
30596 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 9:48 am to
quote:

tl;dr


Honestly, this shite right here ought to be what perma-bans are made of.

If it's too long, just don't fricking read it, a-hole... No need to announce your fricking A.D.D. to the rest of the adults here.
Posted by dbeck
Member since Nov 2014
29454 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 9:49 am to
There's an episode of Brain Games that deals with how faulty the human memory can be. Pretty eye-opening.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
481186 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 9:49 am to
quote:

Psychologists, counselors, and all manner of therapists were brought in to meet with the kid. He could not nay have supervised visitation for 1 hour every other week. It was so transparent all this was made up as there were never any claims of abuse prior to their breakup but it basically ruined this guys life.

yeah it's shitty. your example is a much more common and less extreme version of the same problem

so many of these juvenile psychologists go in biased assuming there is some conflict and buy into the "abuse" angle and negligently plant validity for the false memories into the children. it's one of those situations where a person's heart is in the right place and evil, immoral results occur. they will never accept they may be doing such terrible things and have created their own psychological defense mechanisms to protect themselves
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
481186 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 9:50 am to
quote:

If it's too long, just don't fricking read it, a-hole... No need to announce your fricking A.D.D. to the rest of the adults here.

it's no biggie

if that's their response, i don't want them contributing to this conversation anyway
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
74628 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 9:50 am to
quote:

Honestly, this shite right here ought to be what perma-bans are made of.

If it's too long, just don't fricking read it, a-hole... No need to announce your fricking A.D.D. to the rest of the adults here.


What else do you expect from someone who professes with their username to being a quitter?
Posted by GeauxTigerTM
Member since Sep 2006
30596 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 9:52 am to
quote:


if that's their response, i don't want them contributing to this conversation anyway


Well, yeah...but very few things piss me off more on this forum than the assumption that it's fricking Twitter. it isn't. And if one's attention is so limited that anything beyond a sentence or two is too much to ask of them, then find another thing to read.

Like fortune cookie slips.
Posted by Bourre
Da Parish
Member since Nov 2012
24244 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 9:54 am to
That is crazy. How is that lead investigator not negligent for a shame investigation?
Posted by GeauxTigerTM
Member since Sep 2006
30596 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 9:56 am to
quote:

a foundational moment of my life was taking Memory and Forgetting in undergrad. dude was an expert on exposing "repressed memories" as the fraud that they are and really left an imprint on me about the fallibility of memory. when i try to explain this stuff to some lawyers i work with (who believe eyewitness testimony is the end-all, be-all), they flatly reject it (i think b/c they want to protect the system they've invested so much in)

what's scary is that in most jurisdictions, it's inadmissible to hire an expert on false testimony to testify at trial to discuss the issue. the system itself bends over to protect the false narrative that witness testimony is reliable. if i had "frick you" money this would be an area i'd work on strongly to change our laws to be more rational and reflect reality


Yep...I love this topic. Not to pivot your original story, but it's this false belief that one's memories are infallible that lead to so many other false beliefs or pseudoscience bullshite being believed. That whole, "I know what I saw!!!" nonsense.

Once you step back and accept that we're TERRIBLE information gathering devices you're free to allow other, more accurate vehicles for measuring things, take over and do the heavy lifting.
Posted by foshizzle
Washington DC metro
Member since Mar 2008
40599 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 9:57 am to
Some people will believe anything.

But one thing I want to know is who the hell was the defense attorney and how in holy hell did the case get screwed up that badly?
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
481186 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 9:58 am to
quote:

How is that lead investigator not negligent for a shame investigation?

in the mid-80s to mid-90s (aka, the worst time in the history of the US), people truly believed Satanic cults were running wild

he wasn't negligent as much as reinforcing a mythology that society 100% believed at the time. hell, he was part of the groupthink and it likely influenced his rationality at the time. we're getting into some really meta leveling here. from a purely rational mindset, he was negligent in ignoring rational investigations and objective facts. but we don't live in that world. we live in a world of people who are inherently biased towards all sorts of external and internal forces
Posted by HoustonGumbeauxGuy
Member since Jul 2011
33747 posts
Posted on 6/24/17 at 10:01 am to
quote:

Honestly, this shite right here ought to be what perma-bans are made of. If it's too long, just don't fricking read it, a-hole... No need to announce your fricking A.D.D. to the rest of the adults here.

Somebody got da PMS
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