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re: Contractor won't give me an estimate
Posted on 9/1/16 at 2:20 pm to Jester
Posted on 9/1/16 at 2:20 pm to Jester
quote:
I typically bid out multi-million dollar construction contracts several times a year. If I ever had a contractor respond to my request for bids with "How much ya got?," I'd never, ever consider hiring that guy.
I think you're full of crap. "What's the budget for this project?" is one of the most common questions in contract negotiation there is.
2
Posted on 9/1/16 at 2:20 pm to wickowick
As a former estimator who did it for ten years and then bailed for a better paying gig, let me warn you. Estimating software is great for turning out boiler plate estimates on the fly in times of heavy volume. But you had better fricking have a spreadsheet of your own as backup to check on it. I've been fricked one too many times by trusting the number spit out by the software. There are ways to tweak it and manipulate it. But I wouldn't go looking at the software as this "alpha and omega" to it all on estimating.
Also, the contractor should set aside time either first thing in the morning or end of the day and do his own estimates. Not talking fraud here, but from a pure estimating and planning standpoint - that thought reasoning of waiting for insurance/FEMA will frick you, without lube, every which way. I'm telling you. Don't rely on somebody else's estimate.
Also, the contractor should set aside time either first thing in the morning or end of the day and do his own estimates. Not talking fraud here, but from a pure estimating and planning standpoint - that thought reasoning of waiting for insurance/FEMA will frick you, without lube, every which way. I'm telling you. Don't rely on somebody else's estimate.
Posted on 9/1/16 at 2:23 pm to lsufan31
quote:
What this sounds like to me is that the contractor is going to say "ok, youre getting $28,000 from FEMA, $28,000 is my estimate". Rather than saying upfront that the cost is only $21,000. Its shady.
....according to the OP the contractor is waiting to see what FEMA is going to pay out for different aspects of construction in general
Posted on 9/1/16 at 2:24 pm to slackster
quote:
People who intentionally try to defraud the government are taking money away from those who are truly in need. FEMA is obligated to make sure taxpayer dollars go only to those people who sustained legitimate losses. This may include prosecuting anyone who makes a fraudulent claim.
Individuals who have made a mistake when reporting damage or who have misrepresented their losses may correct the situation immediately by calling the toll-free FEMA Helpline at 800-621-FEMA (3362) or TTY 1-800-462-7585 for those with speech or hearing impairments.
FEMA’s Office of Inspector General routinely audits individuals, state and local governments and nonprofit organizations that receive FEMA disaster-recovery funds. The audits are independent assessments to determine whether recipients spent the funds according to federal regulations and FEMA guidelines. Usually audits question expenditures for ineligible items or instances of duplicate payments from insurance companies or other sources.
Most cases where possible fraud is detected are not deliberate attempts to defraud the federal government. Individuals should be certain they use the money they receive from FEMA or the state for the intended purpose. It’s a good idea to keep receipts to show how the money was spent.
Source - FEMA.
Posted on 9/1/16 at 2:26 pm to slackster
quote:
If you would have done the work for under the FEMA grant, but you increase your bid to match the grant funds, they you're committing fraud (and possibly the homeowner too).
or if the bid came in under the FEMA grant then quite possibly the homeowner decides he wants 3cm granite instead of 2cm granite to used up the unused funds.
Posted on 9/1/16 at 2:26 pm to lsufan31
quote:
What this sounds like to me is that the contractor is going to say "ok, youre getting $28,000 from FEMA, $28,000 is my estimate". Rather than saying upfront that the cost is only $21,000. Its shady.
Bullshite.
How many times has someone expected to get a job offer, would happily accept $85k per year, the offer came in at $92k per year, and said, naw, I'll come work for $85k?
It's not shady, it's what the buyer is willing to pay.
Posted on 9/1/16 at 2:26 pm to Meauxjeaux
quote:
"What's the budget for this project?" is one of the most common questions in contract negotiation there is.
who negotiates prior to bidding?
Posted on 9/1/16 at 2:29 pm to Topwater Trout
The GC shopping out sub numbers...they all do it. 
Posted on 9/1/16 at 2:30 pm to Topwater Trout
quote:
"What's the budget for this project?" is one of the most common questions in contract negotiation there is.
who negotiates prior to bidding?
Companies?
A 5 second google search turned up a common real world sample... read Question #1
ETA: here's one where they state the budget ... telling potential contractors how much we'll spend on something
This post was edited on 9/1/16 at 2:35 pm
Posted on 9/1/16 at 2:30 pm to Topwater Trout
quote:
who negotiates prior to bidding?
I ask people everyday, "Whats your budget"? Some will answwer some wont...but if they say "Well my budget is $1m" and they are looking at something that's going to cost them $3m then we are already starting too far apart and no negotiation is going to bring close enough to make a deal....
Vetting and qualifying potential clients saves me and you a lot of time
This post was edited on 9/1/16 at 2:32 pm
Posted on 9/1/16 at 2:30 pm to tgrbaitn08
quote:
....according to the OP the contractor is waiting to see what FEMA is going to pay out for different aspects of construction in general
Which effects what, exactly? The homeowner determines what they'll pay and the contractor determines what he'll charge. That is how the market is set. If the contractor's approach is "I'll just charge whatever you've got to spend" it is shady at best and fraudulent at worst.
Posted on 9/1/16 at 2:34 pm to PrivatePublic
quote:
This is FEMA, not insurance. They aren't going to negotiate with contractors moron.
You should know wtf you're talking about before running your mouth. We finished up 10 or so flood jobs not more than two months ago. Every client received money from FEMA and we got FEMA to add additional money to every single estimate.
Posted on 9/1/16 at 2:35 pm to Meauxjeaux
quote:
How many times has someone expected to get a job offer, would happily accept $85k per year, the offer came in at $92k per year, and said, naw, I'll come work for $85k?
It's not shady, it's what the buyer is willing to pay.
First of all, the buyer in this case is the American tax payer, so it is quite different.
Second of all, the negotiation starts with one party knowing the max they'll pay and the other party knowing the minimum they'll accept. In this case the contractor is going to take the approach that the homeowner will spend every cent they get from FEMA, so they'll simply charge them that much or more. That is how the American public gets screwed.
ETA: The homeowner usually doesn't give a shite because it isn't "their" money, but as a taxpayer I'd like to get as much bang for my buck.
This post was edited on 9/1/16 at 2:37 pm
Posted on 9/1/16 at 2:36 pm to slackster
quote:
the contractor is going to take the approach that the homeowner will spend every cent they get from FEMA,
As he should, whats wrong with that?
Posted on 9/1/16 at 2:40 pm to tgrbaitn08
quote:
As he should, whats wrong with that?
Because it isn't a true market rate, and it is my money and your money they're taking.
If the scope of work says the floor needs to be replaced, I want to know what the contractor will charge to replace the floor. I also want to know what FEMA will pay to replace the floor. If the contractor comes in lower than the FEMA estimate, that is great for all parties. If he comes in higher, and so do other bids, then the homeowner should take it up with FEMA to appeal the pricing.
A contractor coming in lower and then increasing it to the actual reimbursement charges is where I've got a problem. That was suggested both directly and indirectly in this thread many times and it is wrong.
Posted on 9/1/16 at 2:43 pm to slackster
quote:
Because it isn't a true market rate, and it is my money and your money they're taking.
If the scope of work says the floor needs to be replaced, I want to know what the contractor will charge to replace the floor. I also want to know what FEMA will pay to replace the floor. If the contractor comes in lower than the FEMA estimate, that is great for all parties. If he comes in higher, and so do other bids, then the homeowner should take it up with FEMA to appeal the pricing.
I agree but
quote:
A contractor coming in lower and then increasing it to the actual reimbursement charges is where I've got a problem. That was suggested both directly and indirectly in this thread many times and it is wrong.
that is not what the OP is saying the contractor did
Posted on 9/1/16 at 2:44 pm to tgrbaitn08
quote:
that is not what the OP is saying the contractor did
He recently said the contractor wants to know what FEMA is reimbursing for work. I'm sure he wants to know, but there is no good reason he should know.
Posted on 9/1/16 at 2:51 pm to tgrbaitn08
I would also add that the contractor has a fiduciary duty to his company, even if the company is 100% owned by the guy himself, to maximize revenue and profit for his company.
For anyone running a business, cost to provide a service or product is not the determining factor for it's price. Value is.
Contractors (and I am assuming properly licensed, insured, employing legals, paying taxes, ie, legit businesses) are at a premium value right now.
A contractor has a duty in this environment, to himself, his company, his employees, his funders, etc, to discern what the market is willing to pay for the value he's bringing and charge accordingly.
For anyone running a business, cost to provide a service or product is not the determining factor for it's price. Value is.
Contractors (and I am assuming properly licensed, insured, employing legals, paying taxes, ie, legit businesses) are at a premium value right now.
A contractor has a duty in this environment, to himself, his company, his employees, his funders, etc, to discern what the market is willing to pay for the value he's bringing and charge accordingly.
Posted on 9/1/16 at 2:52 pm to sleepytime
quote:So shady I would not trust him to do a good job for me.
How shady is this?
Posted on 9/1/16 at 2:52 pm to slackster
Food for thought, NFIP insurance is not the same as normal homeowner's insurance. Which is what the vast majority of contractors normally deal with. NFIP is federally underwritten. Every policy is the same. And what's different about them is that there is no negotiation on the prices.
The flood adjuster can negotiate regarding the scope of the loss. But the prices allowed are set by the government. Period. And it's recalculated every 30 days, and it's according to zip code. That creates a huge problem with all these pending claims. The adjusters don't know the pricing for each zip code. Thye complete the scope, and plug it into the system. It then calculates the amounts based on zip codes. And it's changing every 30 days, depending upon when they enter the estimate.
So before they start, contractors have no idea what amount is going to be allowed. And even the adjusters can't tell them. It's creating a cluster, and some contractors don't want to do the work and find out the policy is paying less. Way more common than them paying more. This is becoming a nightmare for homeowners trying to secure contractors. And there is no negotiating with the federal government. Something needs to be done so homeowners don't get screwed.
The flood adjuster can negotiate regarding the scope of the loss. But the prices allowed are set by the government. Period. And it's recalculated every 30 days, and it's according to zip code. That creates a huge problem with all these pending claims. The adjusters don't know the pricing for each zip code. Thye complete the scope, and plug it into the system. It then calculates the amounts based on zip codes. And it's changing every 30 days, depending upon when they enter the estimate.
So before they start, contractors have no idea what amount is going to be allowed. And even the adjusters can't tell them. It's creating a cluster, and some contractors don't want to do the work and find out the policy is paying less. Way more common than them paying more. This is becoming a nightmare for homeowners trying to secure contractors. And there is no negotiating with the federal government. Something needs to be done so homeowners don't get screwed.
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