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re: Conspiracy Theory: Did FDR know Pearl Harbor was going to happen?
Posted on 1/14/19 at 11:47 pm to OMLandshark
Posted on 1/14/19 at 11:47 pm to OMLandshark
quote:our technology was good enough to salvage those ships from the harbor and continue using them in the war after they had been sunk. we obviously viewed all of those ships as legitimate pieces of our navy
The escalation of military technology between 1915 and 1945 isn’t comparable from between 1989 and 2019.
quote:and this is where i totally disagree. it would make much more sense to make the phillipines the sacrificial lamb than it would the literal base of our entire pacific fleet that held every single ship in said pacific fleet
With the same vigor just bombing Asians and a few American ambassadors there? Doubt it.
the phillipines had a been a crown jewel acquisition for us at the turn of the 20th century. that and cuba were our big prizes in the spanish american war. i would bet most americans would view a sneak attack on those islands as an attack on america, especially when they would see news reports and news clips of actual legit american soldiers and planes being shot at
This post was edited on 1/14/19 at 11:48 pm
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Posted on 1/14/19 at 11:47 pm to WestCoastAg
Our equipment sucked at our entry into the war.
We didn't have planes that truly outperformed the zero for awhile and just relied on sheer tenacity, improving training, and better intelligence and a slight edge in technology like radar.
Our torpedoes werent reliable. Our ability to accept tactical loss for strategic draws and wins allowed us to overcome the dicey time. Bull able to raid and shine in his element early also helped throw in a win here and there for morale.
We didn't have planes that truly outperformed the zero for awhile and just relied on sheer tenacity, improving training, and better intelligence and a slight edge in technology like radar.
Our torpedoes werent reliable. Our ability to accept tactical loss for strategic draws and wins allowed us to overcome the dicey time. Bull able to raid and shine in his element early also helped throw in a win here and there for morale.
Posted on 1/15/19 at 12:10 am to OMLandshark
The Chief of Naval Operations issued a war warning on November 25, at the direction of Roosevelt. The Japanese fleet was known to be at sea; most thought the target was Malaya or the Phillipines; no one expected Pearl Harbor. Roosevelt wasn't hiding anything. War was expected imminently. The only surprise was the location. And the clues were there; the problem was too much information rather than not enough. No one was able to sift through it all and find the crucial nuggets.
As far as the carriers, it was by no means a foregone conclusion that they were the strategic paradigm shift they turned out to be. Even the Japanese expected the air attack to be merely the opening round, intended to lure the American battleships out into a decisive gunfight every admiral in the world had been itching for since Trafalgar.
As far as the carriers, it was by no means a foregone conclusion that they were the strategic paradigm shift they turned out to be. Even the Japanese expected the air attack to be merely the opening round, intended to lure the American battleships out into a decisive gunfight every admiral in the world had been itching for since Trafalgar.
Posted on 1/15/19 at 12:11 am to Jim Rockford
yep
Posted on 1/15/19 at 12:26 am to arcalades
[link=(but)]https://dprogram.net/rtr-truth-media/flight-93-docs-show-military-intervened-says-dark-overlord-hacker-release/[/link]
It's looking like it may be what the darkoverlord hackers are going to release from the insurance document batches...
So...not really a stretch...
Do you remember when McNamara was interviewed in '94 and waa busted for lying to Congress about the Gulf of Tonkin resolution that put us in the Vietnam War?
Yeah, most people don't as the media was laissez faire about it...it took a BBC guy to EVEN ASK THE QUESTION...
So, nothing surprises me...
quote:
The US government shot down United 93.
I believe in many conspiracy theories, but this one is just absurd
It's looking like it may be what the darkoverlord hackers are going to release from the insurance document batches...
So...not really a stretch...
Do you remember when McNamara was interviewed in '94 and waa busted for lying to Congress about the Gulf of Tonkin resolution that put us in the Vietnam War?
Yeah, most people don't as the media was laissez faire about it...it took a BBC guy to EVEN ASK THE QUESTION...
So, nothing surprises me...
Posted on 1/15/19 at 1:21 am to OMLandshark
Personally I’d have had the battleships out and on patrol or somewhere else instead of all of them nicely lined up and moored.
Do I think he knew it was Pearl Harbor. No. I think he and others knew something was going to happen somewhere and soon but I don’t think they thought it would be Pearl Harbor.
Japan had been island hoping taking territories one after another. No reason to believe they would sail on by several places to strike at the heart of the pacific fleet.
Hindsight shows that Japan was expending their resources faster than they could replenish them so they did the right thing hoping to stop the US in its tracks and give them time to secure additional resources by conquering other territories and not having to watch their backdoor for the pacific fleet.
Japan failed. Our carriers weren’t at pearl and we essentially whipped their navy at midway causing the Japanese navy to almost be a non factor after moving sway.
Do I think he knew it was Pearl Harbor. No. I think he and others knew something was going to happen somewhere and soon but I don’t think they thought it would be Pearl Harbor.
Japan had been island hoping taking territories one after another. No reason to believe they would sail on by several places to strike at the heart of the pacific fleet.
Hindsight shows that Japan was expending their resources faster than they could replenish them so they did the right thing hoping to stop the US in its tracks and give them time to secure additional resources by conquering other territories and not having to watch their backdoor for the pacific fleet.
Japan failed. Our carriers weren’t at pearl and we essentially whipped their navy at midway causing the Japanese navy to almost be a non factor after moving sway.
Posted on 1/15/19 at 1:34 am to OMLandshark
Posted on 1/15/19 at 1:48 am to OMLandshark
quote:
The escalation of military technology between 1915 and 1945 isn’t comparable from between 1989 and 2019.
The computer tech alone from now is light years beyond what they had in 1989.
shite, even my cruddy out of date iPhone 6 would run circles around the super computers of that era.
Posted on 1/15/19 at 1:51 am to IceTiger
quote:
Do you remember when McNamara was interviewed in '94 and waa busted for lying to Congress about the Gulf of Tonkin resolution that put us in the Vietnam War?
Between listening to McNamara in the movie doc The Fog of War and Nixon on the HBO doc Nixon by Nixon it's clear that there is a lot of potential for dicey shite to go on in each administration.
Posted on 1/15/19 at 2:05 am to Dr RC
quote:
Between listening to McNamara in the movie doc The Fog of War and Nixon on the HBO doc Nixon by Nixon it's clear that there is a lot of potential for dicey shite to go on in each administration.
Why We Fight is good, too.
Posted on 1/15/19 at 5:26 am to OMLandshark
quote:
I’m willing to bet 3/4 of people in 1941 couldn’t tell me what Pearl Harbor was before it was attacked.
I can't guess on that, but anyone reading newspapers in 1940 or 41 knew where Pearl Harbor was and why it was being built up to defend the Western states against a potential attack by Japan. Newspapers in the Fall of 41 were reporting more warnings and fears of an attack as talks between Washington and Japan broke down.
I guess any conspiracy theory would involve FDR knowing the exact moment and plan of attack, and further assumes that the Pacific fleet was ready to handle it given a little more notice.
Posted on 1/15/19 at 5:37 am to OMLandshark
Yup
Posted on 1/15/19 at 6:00 am to OMLandshark
quote:
Conspiracy Theory
Just remember that the FIRST conspiracy theory in ANY event is the official story.
Posted on 1/15/19 at 6:04 am to OMLandshark
I don’t know how you could listen to that Carlin podcast and reach this conclusion or imagine only one code-cracker could hear the message and that it would only go to his superior then directly to the president. Further that all these folks would just allow so many to get killed in a surprise attack. Simply discovering that the japs were on their way to attack would be more than sufficient to enter the war. The conspiracy theory is preposterous because it is unnecessary.
Posted on 1/15/19 at 6:08 am to Wtodd
No. Keep in mind even Yamanoto's IJN colleagues thought the plan outlandish and implausible. He doubtless expected an attack. The Philippines or Guam? Sure. Did his actions invite That? Also yes, because he wanted in the broader war, but a strike on Pearl was implausible until it happened. He got more of what he wanted than he anticipated.
Posted on 1/15/19 at 6:11 am to OMLandshark
quote:I believe he did. However we know for sure that The Great Pumpkin King did know. He knows all. And he would have stopped the attack with a 20 foot wall surrounding Pearl Harbor. He built a demo one with his legos.
Did FDR know Pearl Harbor was going to happen?
Posted on 1/15/19 at 6:28 am to OMLandshark
quote:
It’s suspicious to me that all the valuable ships were out, and all the WWI retro ships were still in Pearl Harbor.
Um, the carriers and their escorts were out. The number of battleships in port was exceptional. I disagree with your statement, sir.
Posted on 1/15/19 at 6:59 am to OMLandshark
quote:
In 1940 80 plus percent of Americans were against it.
By late 1941 (before Pearl Harbor), public opinion had already shifted towards getting involved.
Posted on 1/15/19 at 7:22 am to TheArrogantCorndog
quote:
But the whole radar miscue kinda boggles the mind, especially knowing half the world is at war and knowing Japan is kicking arse in the Pacific months before
What radar miscue?
Posted on 1/15/19 at 8:43 am to OMLandshark
Yes
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