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Started By
Message
re: Congress destroys Northrop Grumman CEO over stupid mistakes on the James Webb Space Telesc
Posted on 7/28/18 at 5:18 pm to ThatMakesSense
Posted on 7/28/18 at 5:18 pm to ThatMakesSense
quote:Scope changes requested by business render the initial quote irrelevant. Saying it should have been accounted for in the bid is like saying that if you contracted someone to build you a house for 3,000 sq ft with a pool, then part way through building it you decided to change half the design, make it 4,500 sq ft with two pools, the contractor should still build it for the original quoted price
All the reasons you stated, should have been accounted for in the bid.
NASA is then between a rock and a hard place, because they already have tremendous sunk costs in the project at the time of the scope expansion, giving them virtually no leverage to negotiate with other contractors as the new company would have to start from scratch. They screwed the pooch with poor planning, and I'm sure NG then gouged them for it. They're both at fault.
This post was edited on 7/28/18 at 5:24 pm
1
Posted on 7/28/18 at 5:30 pm to tLSU
quote:
The question should be how the government can execute a contract in which the vendor can overrun the projected cost 20 times over and tell the taxpayer to deal with it.
Northrop Grumman has given politicians in DC about $2.7 million for the 2018 election cycle. Both parties gets their cut. Same shite happens every election cycle.
It's not hard to understand. Politicians get their campaign money. Taxpayers gets screwed. It's the American way.
Posted on 7/28/18 at 5:37 pm to el duderino III
quote:
Scope changes requested by business render the initial quote irrelevant. Saying it should have been accounted for in the bid is like saying that if you contracted someone to build you a house for 3,000 sq ft with a pool, then part way through building it you decided to change half the design, make it 4,500 sq ft with two pools, the contractor should still build it for the original quoted price
Yeah, thats called a change order.
ETA A 10 yr house build would be comical.
Aeronuatical engineering is different, sure, I'm saying they know they from the beginning bid. The 500MM was a cupcake bid to win. Especially when your completion date is 10 yrs later.
This post was edited on 7/28/18 at 5:41 pm
Posted on 7/28/18 at 5:44 pm to ThatMakesSense
quote:
All the reasons you stated, should have been accounted for in the bid.
You didn't read the article apparently. Mission scope was changed pretty dramatically *after* the initial bid due to new discoveries, such as by Kepler. That isn't the contractor's fault at all, NASA decided that in light of more recent research that they wanted Webb to do more stuff. Not surprisingly, this costs extra.
quote:
These are literally rocket scientists, in 1996. Not some dumb frick.
The people working on these contracts aren't stupid, but they aren't "literally" rocket scientists either.
Posted on 7/28/18 at 5:50 pm to foshizzle
quote:
You didn't read the article apparently. Mission scope was changed pretty dramatically *after* the initial bid due to new discoveries, such as by Kepler. That isn't the contractor's fault at all, NASA decided that in light of more recent research that they wanted Webb to do more stuff. Not surprisingly, this costs extra.
Right. Unsurprisingly more shite was discovered. Huge surprise. I was shocked.
Posted on 7/28/18 at 5:56 pm to foshizzle
quote:
foshizzle
Thanks for clarifying that
Posted on 7/28/18 at 6:45 pm to foshizzle
They also caused their own problems. I'm sure the wiring frick up messed up many electrical systems. The mirror thing probably caused all of the extremely expensive, custom mirrors to have to be replaced. Plus, they shook the thing so hard, that so many bolts fell out that it somehow took them 6 months to find them all
Posted on 7/28/18 at 7:48 pm to ThatMakesSense
quote:You sound like you're trying to apply the principles of construction contracting to the aerospace industry. Other than them both involving bidding for contracts, they don't have much in common
Yeah, thats called a change order.
quote:So this company has been bidding on contracts for NASA for 50 years, competing with companies like Boeing, Lockheed Martin, etc for each one, and you think their long term strategy is to suddenly start submitting "cupcake bids" for every contract and hoping NASA didn't notice?
The 500MM was a cupcake bid to win.
Posted on 7/28/18 at 7:48 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
It takes a big set of balls to say something like that
It just means less money to help enrich those inside the beltway. They've got politicians and bureaucrats by the balls. D.C. Isn't going to give up on that kind of grift.
This post was edited on 7/28/18 at 9:28 pm
Posted on 7/28/18 at 7:57 pm to DavidTheGnome
quote:
Originally estimated to be $500 million and now the final cost is estimated to be $10 billion..? That’s absolutely ridiculous.
Originally scheduled to launch in March of this year, the "plan" is to send it into space on March 30, 2021. Somebody needs to kick that CEO's butt and Northrup Grumman should never get another NASA contract.
Posted on 7/28/18 at 7:59 pm to DavidTheGnome
Shakedown for more political donations.
Posted on 7/28/18 at 9:20 pm to High C
quote:Don't you just love government contracts?
So, they're refusing to absorb the costs of their own mistakes.
This post was edited on 7/28/18 at 9:21 pm
Posted on 8/1/18 at 7:00 am to Hammertime
quote:
They also caused their own problems.
Never said otherwise. Just saying there's more to the story.
quote:
they shook the thing so hard, that so many bolts fell out that it somehow took them 6 months to find them all
They have to do a vibration test to simulate what happens during a launch. Better to have all those bolts fall out on the ground when you can do something about it.
No, the bolts should not have fallen out but the test itself is standard for satellites.
Posted on 8/1/18 at 7:49 am to DavidTheGnome
Funny, I saw an older investigative piece about a week ago about all the fraud Northrop Grumman committed during the B2 build. Same shite, different day.
Posted on 8/1/18 at 8:55 am to DavidTheGnome
quote:
Originally estimated to be $500 million and now the final cost is estimated to be $10 billion..? That’s absolutely ridiculous
What's the point of the bidding system if you can do this? This reminds me of the company in New Orleans that got the contract to do the Bourbon Street repairs with a bid of 2 million, and then 3 weeks later bumped it up to 15 mil.
I've told my boss we should just start bidding 30 bucks for every project if that crap is allowed
ETA: just saw the comments saying that the scope on the project was changed so it might not be applicable to this situation, but the point still stands
This post was edited on 8/1/18 at 8:58 am
Posted on 8/1/18 at 9:14 am to ThatMakesSense
quote:
All the reasons you stated, should have been accounted for in the bid.
Wait what?
All?
Including the one where they changed the project? You are supposed to consider that in your bids?
Does the same apply to domestic issues? Bid for a patio, but quote 1.35x that just in case they decide to add an outdoor kitchen to it?
Posted on 8/1/18 at 9:17 am to DavidTheGnome
quote:
See F-35 program for example.
And F22
Posted on 8/1/18 at 9:17 am to GeeOH
quote:
would be shuttered and taken over by a more competent company
got one in mind ?
Posted on 8/1/18 at 9:31 am to DavidTheGnome
NG should eat these costs but anyone in Congress talking about us taxpayers getting screwed is hypocritical as hell
Posted on 8/1/18 at 11:22 am to Wtodd
Agree. Congress is the last group in any position to critique someone else regarding budgets.
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