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re: Co-pilot walk around outside the plane

Posted on 5/1/17 at 12:25 pm to
Posted by Dont_Call_Me_RAY
Member since Feb 2017
1439 posts
Posted on 5/1/17 at 12:25 pm to
Stewardess



Flight Attendant:

Posted by TigerstuckinMS
Member since Nov 2005
33687 posts
Posted on 5/1/17 at 12:59 pm to
quote:

I know zero about planes. Can you explain what you said in layman terms? That looked terrible.

So, you know how the pilot moves the stick around in the cockpit and through all the linkages and flight control systems the control surfaces on the wings and rudder move in response? Well, depending on how the controls are built, it is possible on some planes for it to happen the other way around: if you move the control surfaces around, the stick will want to flop around in the cockpit. On a windy day, if it's gusty and someone's near the stick but not holding onto it, a good gust of wind that moves a control surface suddenly can make the stick crack someone pretty good.

So, planes that are affected like this can be quipped with gust locks that don't let anything in the control system move around while the plane's on the ground and there's no pilot controlling the stick. These gust locks and the other controls of the airplane are supposed to be built in such a way that you can never leave the ground with the locks engaged because the plane will be difficult, if not impossible, to control. Part of the pre-flight routine is to check that the control surfaces properly respond to control inputs as a final visual and tactile check by the pilot to make sure that no control lock systems are engaged and that the plane's control surfaces will respond properly once the pilot gets the plane in motion.

From some of the comments on the video, the pilot apparently did a proper pre-flight on this one and everything checked out, but something failed after takeoff that engaged the gust lock when the pilot pulled back on the stick to get airborne. Unfortunately, this locked the control surfaces as if the pilot were still pulling back on the stick and the plane responded accordingly, trying to continue to rotate around into a loop. The pilot tried to push the stick forward and it wasn't responding. I have no idea if this particular aircraft could do it at any airspeed or altitude, but certainly not immediately after takeoff. It was moving too low and too slow when it went into the loop, stalled, and plunged into the ground. The pilot's remains were near where the gust lock controls were, so there's pretty good evidence the pilot realized what was happening, but had far too little time and altitude to save the plane.
Posted by mikelbr
Baton Rouge
Member since Apr 2008
49099 posts
Posted on 5/1/17 at 1:09 pm to
quote:

Co-pilot walk around outside the plane


Well for starters, Jesus is MY co-pilot. So he kind of floats around the plane.
Posted by 777Tiger
Member since Mar 2011
93541 posts
Posted on 5/1/17 at 1:10 pm to
quote:

Jesus is MY co-pilot.

don't you dare touch him!
Posted by bigwheel
Lake Charles
Member since Feb 2008
6491 posts
Posted on 5/1/17 at 8:30 pm to
Check the tires & start the fires
Posted by Hook Em Horns
350000 posts
Member since Sep 2010
15708 posts
Posted on 5/1/17 at 9:13 pm to
thank you captain copy and paste
Posted by tigerinthebueche
Member since Oct 2010
38230 posts
Posted on 5/1/17 at 9:20 pm to
After he's done his pre flight, he better get the AFIS.
Posted by FredsGotSlacks
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2008
917 posts
Posted on 5/1/17 at 9:31 pm to
quote:


What do you think is the one control surface you could lose in flight (>3k ft) and best bring it down safely somewhere. Assuming flat terrain and all trims/flaps operable.

Ailerons
Rudder
Elevators

I'd say the rudder. They simulate jammed/inop pitch or roll controls and it's a workout, the pitch especially. I'm drawing a blank but there was a crash a long time ago where the crew lost all hydraulic flight controls and got the airplane on the ground using differential thrust; a lot of people died but the fact that anyone walked away is pretty incredible.

ETA: united flight 232, Sioux City
LINK
This post was edited on 5/1/17 at 9:45 pm
Posted by FredsGotSlacks
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2008
917 posts
Posted on 5/1/17 at 9:39 pm to
quote:



That had to be a white-knuckler with partial range on the controls. Wasn't this situation exposed during the preflight control check from the cockpit by applying full input to all the surfaces?

The gust lock on the embraer is strange in that it Prevents the thrust levers from being increased more then a few inches unless it's released but it's also a 2 step release... the first release disengages the pin in the actual elevator and allows for control movement and the thrust levers to move forward to about 70-75% max power, after the pin releases you can then move the gust lock fully forward and get full thrust.

That flight crew only did the initial release. They had flight controls but didn't have anywhere close to takeoff power and didn't catch it. They got extremely lucky that they were on a long runway and not around any terrain.
This post was edited on 5/1/17 at 9:52 pm
Posted by Dont_Call_Me_RAY
Member since Feb 2017
1439 posts
Posted on 5/1/17 at 9:47 pm to
No doubt. United Airlines Flight 232 crew did a hell of a job. As I recall, a passenger was a United Airlines flight ops employee who worked the throttles for some degree of directional control.
Posted by FightinTigersDammit
Louisiana North
Member since Mar 2006
46425 posts
Posted on 5/1/17 at 9:54 pm to
quote:

: united flight 232, Sioux City LINK



Very experienced pilot, plus an instructor pilot along for the ride. Under the circumstances, a hell of a landing.
Posted by BunkieWrench
Katy
Member since Nov 2008
5735 posts
Posted on 5/1/17 at 10:14 pm to
Wife had a flight Sunday.

Plane is all boarded, everybody ready for takeoff.

Announcement made saying everyone has to get back off the plane because the needed to replace the brakes.

Posted by razer
Bossier City
Member since Feb 2010
694 posts
Posted on 5/1/17 at 11:59 pm to
Wow, thanks for that very helpful, thorough explanation. Is it common for more than one pilot to donpr flight checks?
Posted by GeauxxxTigers23
TeamBunt General Manager
Member since Apr 2013
62514 posts
Posted on 5/2/17 at 12:03 am to
Real pilots pre flight with a scotch
Posted by stelly1025
Lafayette
Member since May 2012
10384 posts
Posted on 5/2/17 at 2:53 am to
Pre flight checklist...
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