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Message
re: CDC Still Claim Vaccine is 2x More Effective Than Natural Immunity (Israel Report Ignored)
Posted on 9/30/21 at 9:17 am to STEVED00
Posted on 9/30/21 at 9:17 am to STEVED00
I think that people that have taken the vaccine need to accept the CDC study in the OP and believe it until they die.
With that said, the vaxxed can now stop wearing mask. Stop social distancing. Stop worrying about the unvaxxed.
This should give them the confidence they need to live their life like they did before COVID.
With that said, the vaxxed can now stop wearing mask. Stop social distancing. Stop worrying about the unvaxxed.
This should give them the confidence they need to live their life like they did before COVID.
1
Posted on 9/30/21 at 9:18 am to GumboPot
quote:
With that said, the vaxxed can now stop wearing mask. Stop social distancing. Stop worrying about the unvaxxed.
This is how the vaccine was sold early in the game. They lied.
Posted on 9/30/21 at 9:21 am to mdomingue
quote:
I can't speak to what people are claiming but that is not at all what this study indicated or said. The study was looking at whether there was a benefit and/or efficacy to vaccinations post infection.
Understood however the Kentucky study is being used to discredit NI in regards to why they still NEED TO GET VACCINATED. Both studies say that Vax + NI is best; however they differ in Israel says NI > Vax only.
Posted on 9/30/21 at 9:25 am to STEVED00
quote:
Understood however the Kentucky study is being used to discredit NI in regards to why they still NEED TO GET VACCINATED. Both studies say that Vax + NI is best; however they differ in Israel says NI > Vax only.
Or maybe we should do antibody tests to determine one's immunity whether you are vaxxed or not. If you have an antibody reaction to the spiked protein you can enter the football game or keep your job.
Posted on 9/30/21 at 9:34 am to GumboPot
quote:
If you have an antibody reaction to the spiked protein you can enter the football game or keep your job.
Why is limiting freedom of anyone even a discussion. People who are high risk should probably take the shot and stay at home. Let healthy people live freely!!!!
Posted on 9/30/21 at 9:34 am to Cosmo
I'd let her give me Covid.
Posted on 9/30/21 at 9:50 am to ds_engineer
quote:
Why is limiting freedom of anyone even a discussion.
Just to be clear, I'm for freedom and bodily autonomy for everyone. But if we are going to go down the path of limiting people's freedom and job status based on vaccine status wouldn't it make more scientific sense to condition freedoms based on antibody status? Antibodies are what we need to fight the virus and taking the vaccine assumes you have antibodies which is not always true. So, if we are going to go down the conditional freedom path let's do it on the condition of antibodies. That makes more scientific sense.
Posted on 9/30/21 at 10:14 am to GumboPot
We have put all of our Covid mitigation response into the vaccine was going to end the virus. Well the thing is that it will still need to run its course and it will go away at that point.
Delta seemed to burn thru high vaccination areas in the same fashion as low vaccination areas. The difference was in hospitalizations. My understanding is that people with underlying health conditions were still the primary ones in the hospital (main one being overweight). They obviously should’ve been vaccinated. The narrative that kids are high risk is just not backed up by actual statistics. Do kids catch Covid? Yes. Is it typically extremely mild if they even know it? Also yes.
Delta seemed to burn thru high vaccination areas in the same fashion as low vaccination areas. The difference was in hospitalizations. My understanding is that people with underlying health conditions were still the primary ones in the hospital (main one being overweight). They obviously should’ve been vaccinated. The narrative that kids are high risk is just not backed up by actual statistics. Do kids catch Covid? Yes. Is it typically extremely mild if they even know it? Also yes.
This post was edited on 9/30/21 at 10:24 am
Posted on 9/30/21 at 10:59 am to STEVED00
This data from the Oklahoma Department of health indicates that reinfections of previously infected people are occurring at twice the rate of breakthrough infections in the fully vaccinated.
This post was edited on 9/30/21 at 11:02 am
Posted on 9/30/21 at 11:05 am to LSUBoo
quote:
I've got both
The shot disrupts natural immunity...docs have advised waiting as long as 6 months after infection before getting the shot
Posted on 9/30/21 at 11:17 am to A Menace to Sobriety
quote:
I'd let her give me Covid
Risk it for the brisket
Posted on 9/30/21 at 11:45 am to Jim Rockford
Can you post the study that goes with that chart? They are clear how they come up with the vaccinated data but I’m curious if they have some sort of database that they are charting recovered/not vaccinated people. In the heading they use “approximate” number of cases eligible.
Posted on 9/30/21 at 11:52 am to STEVED00
-85 hospitals (867 total). 2.84% positivity rate.
Posted on 9/30/21 at 11:54 am to bbap
quote:
bbap
My man
Posted on 9/30/21 at 12:06 pm to STEVED00
I looking. It's on their website somewhere. I will look again after lunch.
Posted on 9/30/21 at 12:13 pm to GumboPot
quote:
Just to be clear, I'm for freedom and bodily autonomy for everyone. But if we are going to go down the path of limiting people's freedom and job status based on vaccine status wouldn't it make more scientific sense to condition freedoms based on antibody status? Antibodies are what we need to fight the virus and taking the vaccine assumes you have antibodies which is not always true. So, if we are going to go down the conditional freedom path let's do it on the condition of antibodies. That makes more scientific sense.
You have hit on the crux of the issue. Ignoring immunity derived from infection is silly. The only issue is this type of immunity is considered to be more variable between people, I think Cosmo mentioned the exact tests needed to determine the actual level of immunity.
That said I think arguing about infection-induced immunity is essentially a tacit approval of mandates. Those that do it without pointing out the caveats as you did seem to be mainly interested in avoiding the mandates versus preventing the mandates.
If the argument is no mandates it shouldn't be accompanied with infection-induced immunity is just as good. It is poor rhetoric because it avoids the argument that at least some feel is important.
Posted on 9/30/21 at 12:23 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
I looking. It's on their website somewhere. I will look again after lunch.
I’m just curious if it was anything like the Kentucky study in which their limitations clearly showed the numbers would be skewed to show less vaccinated breakthroughs and more re-infections.
The Israel data seems very complete since they just have the one system and they are not looking in a bunch of different places to find data. They new exactly who was in each category.
This was a funny tidbit that I found in both studies were it pertained to testing.
In the Kentucky study, one of the limitations was that vaccinated people were potentially less likely to be tested bc they felt like they could not be infected.
In the Israel study, one of the limitations was that NI folks were potentially less likely to be tested bc they felt like they couldn’t be infected.
This post was edited on 9/30/21 at 12:40 pm
Posted on 9/30/21 at 12:54 pm to IceTiger
quote:
The shot disrupts natural immunity...docs have advised waiting as long as 6 months after infection before getting the shot
I got them the other way around, got COVID about 8 months after the vaccine. Now I am going to skip the booster for the reason you mentioned.
Posted on 9/30/21 at 1:20 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
This data from the Oklahoma Department of health indicates that reinfections of previously infected people are occurring at twice the rate of breakthrough infections in the fully vaccinated.
This doesn't match what we are seeing in the hospital. Without even looking at source study and just going by your chart I can see a few huge confounding factors.
1) "Approximate Number of Cases Eligible for Reinfection" is simply the known COVID case count in Oklahoma by the end of June 2021 (September minus 90 days). Does anyone really believe we have detected even half of actual COVID cases? I suspect 75% have gone undiagnosed, especially in younger population. Contrast this to vaccination, in which we know the exact amount of people fully vaccinated.
2) An infection here is being defined as PCR (or antigen) positivity. PCR is excessively sensitive and should not be used alone to define infection. PCR plus compatible symptoms is a far better definition of infection. A person with excellent COVID immunity can become PCR positive by re-exposure followed by limited viral replication before T-cell immunity and antibodies eradicate the virus. This person would have zero symptoms and zero transmissibility.
3) The initial wave of infections peaked at least 6 months before the peak in vaccination. Normal decline in pre-formed antibodies would then give biased results, favoring vaccination.
The Israel study was really well designed to account for these confounding factors. Additionally, 27x protection against severe disease of previously infected vs. vaccinated tracks very well with what we are seeing in the hospital. That said, even if you have been previously infected, getting one mRNA shot as a booster six months later is a great idea.
Posted on 9/30/21 at 1:34 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
This is how the vaccine was sold early in the game. They lied.
They did not lie about THAT. The Delta Variant changed the landscape.
They lied about plenty of other things, though.
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