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Message
re: CDC Still Claim Vaccine is 2x More Effective Than Natural Immunity (Israel Report Ignored)
Posted on 9/30/21 at 8:29 am to STEVED00
Posted on 9/30/21 at 8:29 am to STEVED00
quote:
Did they burn out or did we just ignore them more than what we did with Covid? My recollection was that original SARS went endemic after around 18mo.
Pretty sure SARS is not endemic and was not ignored.
0
Posted on 9/30/21 at 8:30 am to Salmon
Yes but Novavax good. They won’t worry about the FDA or government requirements and will never seek to limit their liability for any side effects of their experimental vaccine.
Posted on 9/30/21 at 8:31 am to STEVED00
quote:
NI provides even better protection
shocking i was right once again lol
Posted on 9/30/21 at 8:35 am to STEVED00
quote:
Let’s get back on topic. Even the new “Okla” study still shows NI reinfections are RARE. How are they in comparison to vaccine WILL ALWAYS be debatable in US for 2 reasons.
FWIW, I had COVID last summer and questioned my NI. My family caught COVID after Ida (everyone is recovered) and I was surrounded by it for 14 days, everyday and all day. Suspected I may have caught it but tested negative several times. I just chalked it up to allergies which I do get this time of year. Based on this I believe my NI is strong and being recently exposed likely strengthened it.
Posted on 9/30/21 at 8:38 am to Salmon
quote:
the Novavax is literally just injecting the spike protein into your body
Right. A known number. Everyone is getting the same number of antigens.
mRNA relies on the host to produce the spiked protein. Antigen production will vary from person to person. Some people will not make enough, most people just right, and some too much.
At least with Novavax you are getting a known quantity of antigens.
Posted on 9/30/21 at 8:40 am to Damone
quote:
Yes but Novavax good. They won’t worry about the FDA or government requirements and will never seek to limit their liability for any side effects of their experimental vaccine.
Ok. Let’s add Novavax to the discussion. It’s BS if we force people to take any of the FOUR vaccines if they have already had Covid.
Posted on 9/30/21 at 8:42 am to Damone
quote:
es but Novavax good. They won’t worry about the FDA or government requirements
Novavax is going through traditional FDA trials with good results right now and anticipated to be fully approved in 2022.
Posted on 9/30/21 at 8:44 am to GumboPot
quote:
Right. A known number. Everyone is getting the same number of antigens.
mRNA relies on the host to produce the spiked protein. Antigen production will vary from person to person. Some people will not make enough, most people just right, and some too much.
At least with Novavax you are getting a known quantity of antigens.
:sigh:
This is exactly the fallacy that the article I linked to you earlier was addressing.
This is a completely false scenario.
The epitope response to the antigenic sites on the proteins is what you are missing. Antibodies recognize the different epitopes, but the fallacy is the assumption that everyone produces antibodies for each epitope. The reality is that it varies greatly from person to person, in every scenario. This is why reinfection exists. Its why vaccines fail. Its why variants are able to spread.
Posted on 9/30/21 at 8:45 am to STEVED00
quote:
Ok. Let’s add Novavax to the discussion. It’s BS if we force people to take any of the FOUR vaccines if they have already had Covid.
I agree with this.
However if I'm forced to take a vaccine I want to take the vaccine with a know quantity of antigens. I don't want to be the guy with too much antigen production overwhelming my antibody response and those antigens escaping to the ends of the capillaries.
Posted on 9/30/21 at 8:47 am to GumboPot
quote:
Novavax is going through traditional FDA trials
Novavax completed their Phase 3 trials in 6 months, almost exactly like Phizer and Moderna.
Posted on 9/30/21 at 8:48 am to Salmon
quote:Dude just start making shite up like they do
Novavax completed their Phase 3 trials in 6 months, almost exactly like Phizer and Moderna.
Novavax is good, but it doesn’t fight off cancer and balding like the mRNA vaccines do
Posted on 9/30/21 at 8:50 am to Salmon
quote:
This is a completely false scenario.
But it's not completely false.
quote:
fallacy is the assumption that everyone produces antibodies for each epitope
NI gives you a chance to gain immunity for 29 COVID proteins. You may only gain immunity to one or all 29.
With the vaccine you only have a chance to gain immunity to one protein.
It's just a numbers game.
This post was edited on 9/30/21 at 8:53 am
Posted on 9/30/21 at 8:50 am to STEVED00
I got Pfizer.
Just found out that Pfizer may not be very effective for those with blood cancer.
LINK
Just found out that Pfizer may not be very effective for those with blood cancer.
quote:
“The findings confirm what we have suspected all along, which is that immunocompromised people aren’t going to have the same immune responses to COVID-19 vaccines as people in the initial clinical trials testing these vaccines,” said study leader Ghady Haidar, M.D., of the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine.
quote:
In the US study, nearly half of the patients with blood cancers—31 out of 67 patients (46%)—did not produce detectable antibodies to the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein following two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine. The researchers concluded that the 31 patients were “nonresponders” to the vaccine.
LINK
Posted on 9/30/21 at 8:54 am to GumboPot
quote:
NI give you a chance to gain immunity for 29 COVID proteins. You may only gain immunity to one or all 29.
With the vaccine you only have a chance to gain immunity to one protein.
It's just a numbers game.
Without the S protein, the virus cannot enter your cells.
You don't need immunity from all the other proteins if the virus cannot attach and enter your cell.
Jesus.
Posted on 9/30/21 at 8:55 am to RogerTheShrubber
Not to be morbid, but if you have blood cancer you aren’t going to do very well at producing antibodies for anything
It took my Grandma. Got basically a common cold and that was that for her. Good luck in your battle
It took my Grandma. Got basically a common cold and that was that for her. Good luck in your battle
Posted on 9/30/21 at 8:58 am to Salmon
These types of discussion are what kills me.
You’ve got a bunch of guys who didn’t give two shits about anything in science until 2020. They slept through biology and maybe took Bio 101 if they went to college.
Now, as adults, they want to skip ahead to advanced virology and epidemiology and have a real discussion using hot takes off social media.
You’ve got a bunch of guys who didn’t give two shits about anything in science until 2020. They slept through biology and maybe took Bio 101 if they went to college.
Now, as adults, they want to skip ahead to advanced virology and epidemiology and have a real discussion using hot takes off social media.
Posted on 9/30/21 at 9:00 am to lsupride87
quote:
Not to be morbid, but if you have blood cancer you aren’t going to do very well at producing antibodies for anything
Whats more interesting is my blood counts were such that I was producing antibodies just fine. My levels dramatically changed following the vaccine.
Could it be related to something other than the vaccine? Sure. Unfortunately that may not be known for a long time.
Posted on 9/30/21 at 9:00 am to Salmon
quote:
Without the S protein, the virus cannot enter your cells.
You don't need immunity from all the other proteins if the virus cannot attach and enter your cell.
You don't need it unless it's the delta variant with different spiked protein structure (or any subsequent variants with different spiked protein structures) from alpha. At least with NI you can recognize other proteins thus having a broader immune profile to COVID.
Posted on 9/30/21 at 9:05 am to Dr Lecter
quote:
You’ve got a bunch of guys who didn’t give two shits about anything in science until 2020. They slept through biology and maybe took Bio 101 if they went to college.
Obviously I’m not a virologist but I do review technical reports for a living. Many of these reports in my mind produce more questions than answers. A lot of the technical reports related to Covid especially by CDC IMO had an outcome in mind and the report was tailored to it.
I don’t have much concerns about the vaccines themselves. They seem fine and seem to work very well. I’m much more of a risk/reward person. I analyze risk for a living and forcing people at very little to no risk to do something when we know that the protection is limited to just themselves since we know vaccinated can and do spread the virus is very disturbing.
This post was edited on 9/30/21 at 9:12 am
Posted on 9/30/21 at 9:14 am to STEVED00
quote:
CDC Still Claim Vaccine is 2x More Effective Than Natural Immunity
I can't speak to what people are claiming but that is not at all what this study indicated or said. The study was looking at whether there was a benefit and/or efficacy to vaccinations post infection.
quote:
This study found that among Kentucky residents who were previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 in 2020, those who were unvaccinated against COVID-19 had significantly higher likelihood of reinfection during May and June 2021. This finding supports the CDC recommendation that all eligible persons be offered COVID-19 vaccination, regardless of previous SARS-CoV-2 infection status.
quote:
Kentucky residents with previous infections who were unvaccinated had 2.34 times the odds of reinfection (OR = 2.34; 95% CI = 1.58–3.47) compared with those who were fully vaccinated; partial vaccination was not significantly associated with reinfection (OR = 1.56; 95% CI = 0.81–3.01).
The Israeli Study seems to agree with the Kentucky study regarding reinfection and additional vaccine protections though I did not see (or really look for) percentages.
quote:
Conclusions This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity. Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant.
Just my take.
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