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1
Posted on 2/6/19 at 7:56 am to shiftworker
quote:
If Exxon didn’t have any other options then MAYBE you can play hardball with them and get all the tax monies,
I sort of addressed this in my response to another poster. This was essentially what I was suggesting. Obviously there are situations where there are better options for these corporations but in all of these negotiations our politicians should be at least squeezing them a little bit to see where they're at. It seems to me that as soon as there's some interest in placing a facility in Louisiana, our politicians throw the honey pot at them and claim victory and leave a ton of money and leverage on the table.
This post was edited on 2/6/19 at 7:57 am
Posted on 2/6/19 at 7:58 am to nola000
quote:
Well we don't really know since no other way has ever been tried that I know of. I could be wrong but I think Louisiana has always had very generous property tax exemptions. I also think there are, at least for some industries, situations where Louisiana politicians are holding a royal flush and decide to fold instead of negotiating a better package with these corporations.
If LA can do a tax reform that doesn't completely kill us, I'd be interested. Until LA can find some new industry to come in and compete with Gas and chemical companies, we are forever tied to them. Unlike others, I am for local government having a say in these exemptions when they prove they are competent. When they run off $1B projects to Texas, they are not ready to make those choices. Besides ITEPs, Louisiana literally has nothing to offer big business.
Posted on 2/6/19 at 7:58 am to tigeralum06
quote:
If tax exemptions are good for the economy why isn't every business and person getting the same tax exemption?
Is every business employing 6,000 employees?
Posted on 2/6/19 at 7:59 am to rowbear1922
Agree.
Posted on 2/6/19 at 8:00 am to rowbear1922
Excellent post Rowbear
Posted on 2/6/19 at 8:02 am to nola000
quote:
t certainly had me leaning towards it being propaganda but what really struck me was Louisiana being top five in all these industries yet still being one of the worst states to live in and one of the poorest.
I’ll give you a hint. It’s not because our government receives too little funding from local taxes.
Look at the inefficiencies at all levels of government, DOTD, education, criminal justice. How many non necessary people are on payroll for $60,000-$130,000 a year jobs with FULL pension and healthcare after 30 years of service. 30!!!! That means if you started working for the state at 22, you could retire at 52 with full healthcare and a fully funded pension. It’s a real possibility that you could be retired for more years than you worked.
The over abundance of these positions is what makes our state government “poor”. As for the people, look no further than the lack of emphasis on education coming from the general public. Unfortunately that’s just LA culture (and no that is not limited to cultcha).
Posted on 2/6/19 at 8:10 am to Oilfieldbiology
Yeah, I don't disagree with any of yall that are arguing with me. I just take what I want out of that video and that's two things.
1. It's shocking and sad that Louisiana can be top five in so many industries and still be bottom two in so many measures of quality of life. Something's missing here.
2. Louisiana can't be double the next closest state and like 5x the national average in industrial tax exemptions without making it up somewhere else. Where they making it up at? Louisiana can't be that much worse than Mississippi yet it is.
We're doing something wrong.
1. It's shocking and sad that Louisiana can be top five in so many industries and still be bottom two in so many measures of quality of life. Something's missing here.
2. Louisiana can't be double the next closest state and like 5x the national average in industrial tax exemptions without making it up somewhere else. Where they making it up at? Louisiana can't be that much worse than Mississippi yet it is.
We're doing something wrong.
This post was edited on 2/6/19 at 8:11 am
Posted on 2/6/19 at 8:11 am to shiftworker
TBR, Saint Edwards & Broomedoggle would rather stick it to "the man" for political points than allow businesses to thrive, creating the jobs they claim to care about
And it was Saint Edwards who gave authority to vote on ITEP from state to local level, by executive order.
And it was Saint Edwards who gave authority to vote on ITEP from state to local level, by executive order.
Posted on 2/6/19 at 8:13 am to rowbear1922
quote:I keep reading this thought on here in every discussion when it comes to plants.
Until LA can find some new industry to come in and compete with Gas and chemical companies, we are forever tied to them
The reason that we have so many plants here is that they all draw water from the Mississippi River for utility use (steam, process water, potable water, etc.). Also, the location of Louisiana in regards to the Gulf of Mexico. It's just in an extremely convenient location to sell and ship product around the world.
It's not easy to just snap your fingers and say "hey we need a new industry!" There has to be a reason why a new industry would choose New Orleans/Baton Rouge over Houston or Dallas or Nashville or Birmingham or Atlanta. And by reason, I mean something that would really benefit the company and give reason enough for the move.
And then we get into the whole crooked politicians, horrible crime rate, cost of living sucks, terrible infrastructure, etc. All that shite adds up because you have people working at a potential new industry and not robots. All this stuff lingers in the background and gives a giant red flag to what I just mentioned in the paragraph above.
So my point is, yeah Louisiana thrives on blue collar/industrial, but it's got. Better to have that advantage than nothing at all. May as well either use it to our advantage and grow and figure out ways to get back from it (as Ascension Parish has) or, do like East Baton Rouge Parish and give them the finger and treat them like the ugly red headed step child. Although in this case, the step child bought the land and built the house and provided all the grandparents and parents a job to pay the bills, only for the stupid children to look at them as though they're a liability and not an asset.
Posted on 2/6/19 at 8:15 am to nola000
quote:
1. It's shocking and sad that Louisiana can be top five in so many industries and still be bottom two in quality of life. Something's missing here.
Lack of emphasis on education by the populace. Louisiana and BR in particular spend above the national avg per student without results. Since the video likes to mention Texas a lot, ISDs around Houston spend between $3-4k LESS per student than BR does.
quote:
2. Louisiana can't be double the next closest state and like 5x the national average in industrial tax exemptions without making it up somewhere else. Where they making it up at? Louisiana can't be that much worse than Mississippi yet it is.
Again, income taxes, corporate taxes and inventory taxes. Again, if you want to change the tax system so that the local governments get more, I am all for it. Try and tell the people at the Louisiana state capital that they will receive less on a state level to fund their pet projects/line their pockets/make them more accountable. I'm not saying it cannot happen, but good luck.
Posted on 2/6/19 at 8:20 am to RealityTiger
quote:
The reason that we have so many plants here is that they all draw water from the Mississippi River for utility use (steam, process water, potable water, etc.). Also, the location of Louisiana in regards to the Gulf of Mexico. It's just in an extremely convenient location to sell and ship product around the world.
Houston Ship Channel says hi. same distance to Gulf but with more and better access.
quote:
It's not easy to just snap your fingers and say "hey we need a new industry!" There has to be a reason why a new industry would choose New Orleans/Baton Rouge over Houston or Dallas or Nashville or Birmingham or Atlanta. And by reason, I mean something that would really benefit the company and give reason enough for the move.
I got one for you: marijuana. Be the first state in the south to legalize it before it's legalized on a national scale.
quote:
And then we get into the whole crooked politicians, horrible crime rate, cost of living sucks, terrible infrastructure, etc. All that shite adds up because you have people working at a potential new industry and not robots. All this stuff lingers in the background and gives a giant red flag to what I just mentioned in the paragraph above.
Which is why we have such high ITEPs because companies won't come otherwise.
quote:
So my point is, yeah Louisiana thrives on blue collar/industrial, but it's got. Better to have that advantage than nothing at all. May as well either use it to our advantage and grow and figure out ways to get back from it (as Ascension Parish has) or, do like East Baton Rouge Parish and give them the finger and treat them like the ugly red headed step child. Although in this case, the step child bought the land and built the house and provided all the grandparents and parents a job to pay the bills, only for the stupid children to look at them as though they're a liability and not an asset.
I work in industrial construction (on an ITEP project) so I am not pushing to eliminate these big jobs in the least. I am simply pointing to the fact that right now it is all Louisiana has going for it. We run them off; we are Detroit after the auto makers left.
Posted on 2/6/19 at 8:29 am to rowbear1922
quote:
If tax exemptions are good for the economy why isn't every business and person getting the same tax exemption?
I look at the people who live in Baton Rouge and I feel sorry for them. Not just the poor people, but the people who consider themselves wealthy or middle class. The poor people understand their situation and some of them accept it. The others are in denial and will rage or panic as the city turns into Flint Michigan in the next ten years. Its a really sad situation.
To make matters worse, the people left behind will be surrounded by those who used to be their neighbors just laughing at the spectacle.
It will be horrible.
This post was edited on 2/6/19 at 8:57 am
Posted on 2/6/19 at 8:58 am to SPEEDY
The APSB is swimming in money. The parish realized long ago that plant jobs attract educated, motivated workers. Those workers get paid well and spend that money in the community on housing and goods. An educated, motivated worker also, anecdotally, is invested in their children's education. So the cut of the classrooms are more balanced than surrounding parishes. This makes it easier to retain and attract good teachers. It's a very nice symbiotic relationship. I bet if you looked close enough, there is a correlation between the success of AP schools and the friendly industrial attitude. EBR should be studying everything in the AP, with the exception of residential development.
Posted on 2/6/19 at 9:08 am to Oilfieldbiology
quote:
Honest question. Was Exin’s ITEP request for a project already completed?
No.
It was for a project that now will be done in TX.
Posted on 2/6/19 at 9:28 am to GeismarGeauxer
quote:
No.
It was for a project that now will be done in TX.
Actually, the ITEPs that the school board voted against were already completed. Some say it was due to the new rules under the executive order from JBE. Either way, it was all of $3M over TEN years. Knowing how small that was an the expansion was in the works, they should have given it. XOM pulled the other pending ITEPs (including the expansion) after the school board vote.
XOM announced last week that it would expand it's Beaumont facility by 65%. It was the $1B expansion planned for BR.
This post was edited on 2/6/19 at 9:29 am
Posted on 2/6/19 at 9:35 am to rowbear1922
Rowbear I appreciate your posts and good info.
I may be wrong but I thought Exxon announced the beaumont expansion last February. It wasn't until last month that they actually broke ground. But I believe the decision was long made before ITEP.
This article is dated February 22, 2018. Almost 1 year aggo.
LINK
Is this the expansion you were talking about?
Now additional expansions in TX may be coming as execs were looking at more land in TX 3 weeks ago.
I may be wrong but I thought Exxon announced the beaumont expansion last February. It wasn't until last month that they actually broke ground. But I believe the decision was long made before ITEP.
This article is dated February 22, 2018. Almost 1 year aggo.
LINK
Is this the expansion you were talking about?
Now additional expansions in TX may be coming as execs were looking at more land in TX 3 weeks ago.
This post was edited on 2/6/19 at 9:40 am
Posted on 2/6/19 at 9:41 am to Mudminnow
quote:
I may be wrong but I thought Exxon announced the beaumont expansion last February. It wasn't until last month that they actually broke ground. But I believe the decision was long made before ITEP.
It got final approval from XOM higher ups to do the expansion there last week. Coincidentally, right after the BR school board decision.
Posted on 2/6/19 at 9:58 am to cssamerican
quote:
Do most states, including Texas, have state wide or local control of property tax exemptions?
In Texas, property tax exemptions are given at the local level (county, city, school district, maybe a special district if there is one in the area) and that has been the case for many years.
It's just that Texas politicians -- even hard-core liberals -- aren't EBRP-level stupid.
Posted on 2/6/19 at 10:07 am to rowbear1922
quote:
XOM announced last week that it would expand it's Beaumont facility by 65%. It was the $1B expansion planned for BR.
The Beaumont expansion has been in the works for a long time. They announced last week only that construction would begin. That is not the BR project. XOM is not cancelling development that's already in the plan. The repercussions from the ITEP debacle will come with future considerations.
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