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Are schools creating drop outs through social promotion?
Posted on 9/1/17 at 8:02 pm
Posted on 9/1/17 at 8:02 pm
By progressing students who do not learn the material are they (schools) creating drop outs?
No one really wants a 15 year old in a classroom with 11 and 12 year old students so they will "socially" promote these students. Therefore, the students still doesn't learn the material and just continues to get promoted until they drop out.
Why does't the US have a program to put these students into such as teaching them a technical skill. If a student has been socially promoted once and is still failing they should be in one of these programs at 16 rather than creating a problem in public school classroom.
So are the schools creating these drop outs? Is social promotion a good or bad thing?
No one really wants a 15 year old in a classroom with 11 and 12 year old students so they will "socially" promote these students. Therefore, the students still doesn't learn the material and just continues to get promoted until they drop out.
Why does't the US have a program to put these students into such as teaching them a technical skill. If a student has been socially promoted once and is still failing they should be in one of these programs at 16 rather than creating a problem in public school classroom.
So are the schools creating these drop outs? Is social promotion a good or bad thing?
18
Posted on 9/1/17 at 8:11 pm to tduecen
Bad parenting creates drop outs.
Posted on 9/1/17 at 8:13 pm to tduecen
quote:
So are the schools creating these drop outs? Is social promotion a good or bad thing?
It's a bad thing. It rewards bad behaviors by removing consequences.
Posted on 9/1/17 at 8:14 pm to tduecen
Maybe the system we have set up doesn't serve those who just aren't good at school.
Maybe the system could work to identify these students early on and set them on a different path. Have them learn a trade. Or some marketable skill. Or something that ends up with them somewhere other than prison or on the dole.
Maybe the system could work to identify these students early on and set them on a different path. Have them learn a trade. Or some marketable skill. Or something that ends up with them somewhere other than prison or on the dole.
Posted on 9/1/17 at 8:20 pm to fr33manator
teachers are terrible in this country, they phone it in for a paycheck, and tenure seals the kids fate
Posted on 9/1/17 at 8:24 pm to fr33manator
quote:That is what a lot of foreign countries will do. That is part of the reason why they score so high, because the only students in High School and College are those who performed well enough to attend. The rest are in a technical field that will still help them when they graduate.
Maybe the system could work to identify these students early on and set them on a different path. Have them learn a trade. Or some marketable skill. Or something that ends up with them somewhere other than prison or on the dole.
Posted on 9/1/17 at 8:25 pm to SeeeeK
quote:
tenure seals the kids fate
very little places actually care about this anyone, a bigger issue is too many students, not enough quality teachers. So instead you have just normal adults who are substitutes getting full-time positions Posted on 9/1/17 at 8:27 pm to tduecen
quote:
Why does't the US have a program to put these students into such as teaching them a technical skill.
Def worth a try. Although it's no guarantee a kid who can't/won't pass 5th grade can learn a skill. Those kids probably have a brighter future selling drugs.
Posted on 9/1/17 at 8:30 pm to biglego
Disagree, I think if you start teaching them a skill/trade starting in the 8th grade. Then they've already worked as an apprentice and become certified by the time they graduate at 18. While you will still have some who flame out you will have many more who will become productive members of society.
Posted on 9/1/17 at 8:32 pm to tduecen
I'm all for it. And if they can't hack that, then join the military.
Posted on 9/1/17 at 8:37 pm to tduecen
quote:Everybody gets a participation trophy bro.
By progressing students who do not learn the material are they (schools) creating drop outs?
quote:That would politically incorrect. We all the same.
Why does't the US have a program to put these students into such as teaching them a technical skill.
Posted on 9/2/17 at 11:48 am to Redbone
hmmmmm
Posted on 9/2/17 at 12:16 pm to tduecen
When I was in high school we still did this.
Starting in the junior year, you were determined to either go college prep or vocational.
The first half of the day, everybody was in the same core classes, but after lunch all the vocational kids got bussed off site to another high school with a vocational program to learn skills.
Based on my observation at the time, it didn't seem like the vocational kids were dumb, but they certainly all seemed poor, and many with shitty home situations.
It was a stigma to be a vocational kid.
Starting in the junior year, you were determined to either go college prep or vocational.
The first half of the day, everybody was in the same core classes, but after lunch all the vocational kids got bussed off site to another high school with a vocational program to learn skills.
Based on my observation at the time, it didn't seem like the vocational kids were dumb, but they certainly all seemed poor, and many with shitty home situations.
It was a stigma to be a vocational kid.
Posted on 9/2/17 at 12:20 pm to deeprig9
I just can't see it as a stigma, I have a few friends who went that route after high school and started out at 35-40k once certified. I went to college and racked up debt and now those same people are in the 50-60K range with no debt.
Posted on 9/2/17 at 12:21 pm to tduecen
Welcome to 40 years ago.
Posted on 9/2/17 at 12:25 pm to tduecen
Why should learning a technical skill be reserved only for students that can't cut it in a classroom? This is the most damaging trend to come out of the "everyone needs to go to college" trend that's been pushed upon my generation.
What were left with is a mountain of debt from degrees where the benefit of education has not kept up with the financial burden. And meanwhile, there is an alarming shortage of qualified and motivated people in the trades. Call any HVAC or Mechanical shop and ask them how hard it is to find good tradesmen right now.
What were left with is a mountain of debt from degrees where the benefit of education has not kept up with the financial burden. And meanwhile, there is an alarming shortage of qualified and motivated people in the trades. Call any HVAC or Mechanical shop and ask them how hard it is to find good tradesmen right now.
Posted on 9/2/17 at 12:28 pm to tduecen
We had a vocational/technical track and social promotions.
Our proud graduates run the gamut from successful business owners (this group came from both the voc-ed and college prep tracks) to doctors to starving artists to small time drug dealers to residents of prisons in at least three different states.
Some people were just born to succeed and others were just born to serve as examples.
Our proud graduates run the gamut from successful business owners (this group came from both the voc-ed and college prep tracks) to doctors to starving artists to small time drug dealers to residents of prisons in at least three different states.
Some people were just born to succeed and others were just born to serve as examples.
Posted on 9/2/17 at 12:29 pm to elprez00
quote:It isn't, however, it is more beneficial to those students than those that can cut it in the classroom.
Why should learning a technical skill be reserved only for students that can't cut it in a classroom? This is the most damaging trend to come out of the "everyone needs to go to college" trend that's been pushed upon my generation.
quote:Which would result in less kids feeling they "need" a degree in order to have a job. Less students going for useless "easy" degrees.
What were left with is a mountain of debt from degrees where the benefit of education has not kept up with the financial burden.
quote:And pushing students who aren't performing in the classroom would fix a lot of those issues. Instead of getting frustrated, quitting, etc they would know they have a job when they finish. They can do 2 years of learning, then 2 years of internship + class to be certified. So at 18 they can immediately get a job rather than have to go the internship route many trades require now.
And meanwhile, there is an alarming shortage of qualified and motivated people in the trades
Posted on 9/2/17 at 1:12 pm to tduecen
Livingston Parish now offers a TOPS Tech Diploma or Alternative Diploma as an alternate route for students who have no interest in attending a four-year or two-year college or university. It is specifically geared to teach students trade skills like electrical, carpentry, welding and medical assistant while still including basic fundamentals in subjects like Math, Science, English and Social Studies. Many of the very students you are referring to have been able to take advantage of this option and graduate with a certification in one of the offered areas. Has made me rethink my career path and available high school course offerings several times.
Posted on 9/2/17 at 1:16 pm to DampSocksOnSaturday
The seniors at St. Amant high are the first class to graduate with that same 2 program diploma. And Ascension parish also does a early college option, where you study at RPCC during high school, and get ur deploma and your assoicates at the same time, for free.
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