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Message
re: AP: Parents begged cops to enter school as shooting unfolded. Cops refused
Posted on 5/26/22 at 4:23 pm to Sao
Posted on 5/26/22 at 4:23 pm to Sao
Cops are not properly trained for this shite right now, they treat it a hostage situation despite numerous studies saying not to do that but that you need to rush in asap.
2
Posted on 5/26/22 at 4:26 pm to Bronc
quote:
Cops keep changing their stories, but now it appears the gunman crashed his car, spent 12 minutes shooting outside, at nearby buildings/people and at the school, no officer ever actually confronted him during this period. Climbed the chain link fence, entered an unlocked door, fired a high number of shots upon finally entering.
12 minutes shooting outside the school is an eternity, how the frick was a door unlocked. Why was a lockdown drill not activated. Also the response time in that small of a town should be about 5-10 min.
Posted on 5/26/22 at 4:30 pm to SingleMalt1973
quote:
12 minutes shooting outside the school is an eternity, how the frick was a door unlocked. Why was a lockdown drill not activated. Also the response time in that small of a town should be about 5-10 min.
It seems almost impossible for the response to be that incompetent
Posted on 5/26/22 at 4:32 pm to TutHillTiger
quote:
Cops are not properly trained for this shite right now, they treat it a hostage situation despite numerous studies saying not to do that but that you need to rush in asap.
That's not an excuse for leadership though, ever really. If it was 2 or 3 patrol officers only on the scene I'd agree.
But an hour and 10+ officers, maybe 20-30 IDK that's a leadership decision. So who in the leadership told them to stand down.
What's really hit me hard, is the kids bleeding out. If he was barricaded in its one thing to stand down temporarily for a couple of minutes. But waiting 15 or 30 minutes even, is unjustified with kids bleeding out.
Posted on 5/26/22 at 4:33 pm to jchamil
If this new information is true then whoever was in charge of the LEO’s is an idiot. Forget about failing to engage the shooter after the 911 call but how do you not go in when you know kids are being shot at. That’s their freaking job and to say entering the building earlier would be a mistake, I bet those injured kids lying there for an hour before they died would disagree. Total cowardice.
Posted on 5/26/22 at 4:37 pm to jchamil
quote:
It seems almost impossible for the response to be that incompetent
Especially when the police department is 2 miles away
Posted on 5/26/22 at 4:38 pm to baldona
quote:
Why did he wreck his car? The original story was that he was pursued by officers was it not? He drove into a concrete drainage ditch and wrecked his truck, 2 of his tires came off the axle.
Well the Grandfather has noted(because of questions about how he was able to purchase the guns are emerging as well) the kid never got even his learners permit, so very possible he is just a shite driver that never drove a car before + adrenaline from shooting your grandmother in the face and being a general psychopath.
But I agree, it feels like another gap
Posted on 5/26/22 at 4:39 pm to DmitriKaramazov
The timeline doesn’t make much sense.
Wasn’t it initially reported that he was being pursued after shooting his grandmother? This would make sense as to why he crashed his truck. But if he were being pursued then him walking around outside the school for 12 minutes doesn’t add up.
If he was not being pursued then crashing his truck into a ditch doesn’t make much sense unless he was on some shite. You wouldn’t expect someone to be in such a frenzy to get to the school causing them to crash their truck into a ditch and then spend the next 12 minutes frolicking around outside the school.
Wasn’t it initially reported that he was being pursued after shooting his grandmother? This would make sense as to why he crashed his truck. But if he were being pursued then him walking around outside the school for 12 minutes doesn’t add up.
If he was not being pursued then crashing his truck into a ditch doesn’t make much sense unless he was on some shite. You wouldn’t expect someone to be in such a frenzy to get to the school causing them to crash their truck into a ditch and then spend the next 12 minutes frolicking around outside the school.
This post was edited on 5/26/22 at 4:41 pm
Posted on 5/26/22 at 4:41 pm to baldona
They had multiple points of access to try to breech.
The door to the classroom
The door to the adjoining classroom
Windows
The killer couldn't cover them all and they had plenty of people on hand to have a "team" on each.
This doesn't even included other potential access points if there was a suspended sub ceiling or multiple doors to the classroom both of which I've seen frequently in schools but don't know this school's particulars.
The door to the classroom
The door to the adjoining classroom
Windows
The killer couldn't cover them all and they had plenty of people on hand to have a "team" on each.
This doesn't even included other potential access points if there was a suspended sub ceiling or multiple doors to the classroom both of which I've seen frequently in schools but don't know this school's particulars.
Posted on 5/26/22 at 4:42 pm to UpToPar
quote:
Wasn’t it initially reported that he was being pursued after shooting his grandmother?
Yes, initially that was reported/assumed, but that is no longer the story from the DSP.
Posted on 5/26/22 at 4:45 pm to SpartanSoul
quote:
They had multiple points of access to try to breech.
The door to the classroom
The door to the adjoining classroom
Windows
We don't know exactly where this occurred. BUT, looking at google maps aerial this was an old school with windows on the outside along the entire length of the building. Now, sometimes school windows are covered in art work or whatever. But I don't see how you don't have officers at the door and officers breaking windows in multiple spots from the outside. One guy can't cover his front and back for long.
There's either something missing, or this is a complete and utter frick up by the leadership.
ETA: Here's a pic for reference. If he was in one of these older rooms, there's no excuse. Now there is a newer building and that newer part is closer to the funeral home.
This post was edited on 5/26/22 at 4:48 pm
Posted on 5/26/22 at 4:46 pm to Palmetto98
So use a flash bang you dumb frick
Posted on 5/26/22 at 4:47 pm to Bring Da Wood
quote:
That’s their freaking job and to say entering the building earlier would be a mistake, I bet those injured kids lying there for an hour before they died would disagree. Total cowardice.
So, there has beena couple new stories released in the last hour or so, including one about an off duty border patrol agent getting a haircut and receiving a text from his wife, a teacher at the school, telling him active shooter, need help, love you.
He apparently left, arrived at the school, got with some officers and established a team to go to the class his child was in and retrieve her, and he stayed to help get other kids from other wings. And he mentions, he was told other officers were forming a "tactical squad" to go after the killer.
So, it would seem, during the 60 minute gap officer didn't engage, some spent that time evacuating other children(great), but they were just sort of hanging back plotting relative to the killer, which, is not good. And seemingly just waited so long the outside group came in and established themselves and took over. Where a border patrol sniper was the one who got the kill shot(unclear if he was located outside the building or a sniper in close quarters)
This post was edited on 5/26/22 at 4:50 pm
Posted on 5/26/22 at 4:49 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Wasn’t the first guy there the border patrol guy that shot the perp ?
Posted on 5/26/22 at 4:49 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
This is why every American NEEDS to carry a GUN. Police are not there to protect you or your kids. They are there to clean up the aftermath.
Posted on 5/26/22 at 4:56 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:WTF kind of police force do they have in that town? Have to call the BP for this shite? Are all their officers 5'2" women?
Meanwhile, a law enforcement official familiar with the investigation said the Border Patrol agents had trouble breaching the classroom door and had to get a staff member to open the room with a key.
Posted on 5/26/22 at 5:00 pm to HarryBalzack
quote:
WTF kind of police force do they have in that town? Have to call the BP for this shite? Are all their officers 5'2" women?
Its a town of 15,000 basically 60 miles from anything else. They probably have what, 25-35 officers?
So there was probably 12-15 on duty at any given time?
Posted on 5/26/22 at 5:08 pm to TutHillTiger
quote:
Cops are not properly trained for this shite right now,
I would bet my next paycheck this department has trained active shooter in the last 20 years. Why didn’t they go in and eliminate the threat like the training says? They didn’t want to
Posted on 5/26/22 at 5:09 pm to jchamil
His logic: when seconds count, let's wait an hour.
Posted on 5/26/22 at 6:24 pm to SingleMalt1973
quote:
12 minutes shooting outside the school is an eternity, how the frick was a door unlocked. Why was a lockdown drill not activated. Also the response time in that small of a town should be about 5-10 min.
Things will probably be updated, but I don’t think it was 12 minutes straight of shooting outside school before entering.
12 minutes seems to be from time of crash at 11:28am to killer entering school at 11:40am.
The first 911 call about killer crashing near school was at 11:32am. I remember some reports of him firing at 2 people at a funeral home (a building is across street & closer to where truck was wrecked but not sure what it is).
quote:
At 11.32am, the first 911 call came in reporting the vehicle crash, and saying a man with a gun was exiting the truck.
At 11:44am he shot at the first cops that had entered school. According to one graphic this happened closer to classroom.
School had sent out announcement of a lockdown due to area shooting, but I don’t know if grandmother shooting or shooting after wrecking truck. I think it was done before he entered. I am guessing too many doors and unconnected buildings to check every door to outside. I am not sure what the part of the building with unlocked door was used for, but the door to classroom where shootings happened was further away inside an adjacent part of building (or it’s 2 buildings that got connected). There had been an honor roll awards ceremony 1 or 2 hours before which included some of the kids murdered, but again I don’t know where it was held or if unlocked door was used for this.
Also not sure how killer got through classroom door if Border Patrol unit needed key to get through it. One of teachers murdered was reported to be married to a cop who helped lead active shooting drills for the schools, so it makes me wonder what killer did to get it opened.
There is still a lot of stuff we don’t know, and the possibility of what we think we know now changing later.
The below image is probably already wrong (timing between shooting his grandmother to wrecking truck already seems wrong or off with house so close to school).
While looking for current info I also saw the below that was from yesterday.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10853241/Uvalde-school-district-monitoring-students-social-media-pages-threats-against-staff-site.html
This post was edited on 5/26/22 at 7:03 pm
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