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Alternate history: Would the US have ever allowed a rival to develop due to WW2?
Posted on 10/30/26 at 7:56 pm
Posted on 10/30/26 at 7:56 pm
Take Japan off the table completely for this thought exercise.
Would the US have sat out WW2 and allowed a single country to grow into a legitimate rival?
Pre-war US GDP was roughly the same as pre-war Germany+France+UK.
Plus the Soviets likely get folded into the European empire if no US war material is there to save them from the Germans.
Would the US have sat out WW2 and allowed a single country to grow into a legitimate rival?
Pre-war US GDP was roughly the same as pre-war Germany+France+UK.
Plus the Soviets likely get folded into the European empire if no US war material is there to save them from the Germans.
Posted on 10/30/26 at 8:06 pm to weagle1999
quote:
Would the US have sat out WW2 and allowed a single country to grow into a legitimate rival?
Even without Japan attacking Pearl Harbor, we were already on a trajectory toward war with Germany. They had already suck one American destroyer, the USS Reuben James in October, 1941. And there had been a handful of other incidents where fire was exchanged between American and German vessels.
After the war, while in American custody, Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring was asked during his interrogation why Germany declared war on the US. He said that from the German perspective, war with the US had already begun.
Posted on 10/30/26 at 8:12 pm to Darth_Vader
That sounds right. Pre Pearl Harbor public opinion did not favor entering a foreign war. At the top levels of government they had to just be waiting for the right moment.
Posted on 10/30/26 at 8:17 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
Even without Japan attacking Pearl Harbor, we were already on a trajectory toward war with Germany. They
Yeah
This
Japan though fueled the industry that we call the MIC.
Posted on 10/30/26 at 8:21 pm to Swamp Frog x
quote:
That sounds right. Pre Pearl Harbor public opinion did not favor entering a foreign war. At the top levels of government they had to just be waiting for the right moment.
While it’s true that the American public would not get behind an unprovoked war, incidents like the USS Reuben James was turning the tide.
Considering Roosevelt had implemented the “Lend Lease” program in March 1941 and shipments started flowing to Britain in May and the Soviets in August, incidents like the USS Reuben James would have increased exponentially, especially as American industry was ramping up production. Once German U-boats began active combat against American vessels in the Atlantic, which was a certainty, the formal declaration of war would soon follow from congress.
No matter what, we were heading into World War II. All Japan did was push up the timeline for that entry by probably 3 to 6 months tops.
Posted on 10/30/26 at 9:09 pm to weagle1999
quote:
Would the US have sat out WW2 and allowed a single country to grow into a legitimate rival?
Think in terms of the 4 spheres of oil
Russian oil goes to Russia, if Germany conquers Russia they get that oil
Americans (North + Central + South) oil goes to Americas
Middle East oil goes to Europe
South China Sea oil goes to Asia
The problem is not "if" we go to war, the problem is we were pacifist and neutral (Not our war, it is Europe war) and waited 3 to 5 years before jumping in.
The 1920's were key in looking at things before they got out of hand
Russia = Stalin replaces Lenin in the mid 20's
Germany = Hitler sentenced to prison in mid 20's
By the end of that decade, both Stalin and Hitler have taken control of their respective countries
Russia in the 30's would exterminate 8 million Catholics & Jews in the Ukraine
Germany in the 30's would transform from a democracy to a dictatorship
Not like all this was unfolding and nobody knew, we just ignored it because we felt it did not affect us.
The "BELLS SHOULD BE RINGING" moment in the mid 1930's was the Spanish Civil War - were the Germany army could test its weaponry and battle plans for their next step. Had we all been more concerned about the globe, this is where we stop Hitler
The tea leaves were out there at this time with the Italians attacking Africa and Japan attacking China
From there it is just the Dominoes falling till we wake up
1938 Germany annexes Austria, we do nothing
1938 Germany annexes Czechoslovakia, we do nothing
1939 Germany creates the puppet state of Slovakia, we do nothing
1939 Germany occupies Bohemia, Moravia, Silesia, Lithuania, etc, we still do nothing
1939, late in the year, Germany invades Poland and finally Europe wakes up
1941, December, Japan attacks Pearl Harbor and finally America wakes up
We sat out for roughly 2 DECADES, and look what it cost the world
Posted on 10/30/26 at 9:39 pm to Cheese Grits
quote:
Russian oil goes to Russia, if Germany conquers Russia they get that oil
The irony of this is, before invading the Soviet Union in June 1941, the Soviets were supplying Germany roughly 10% of its oil; the other 90% coming from Romania, which was a close ally of Germany.
So, Germany had a quite secure supply of oil even before launching Barbarossa in 1941. It would not be until 1944, when Romanian oil shipments to Germany began to decline sharply as a result of the sustained Allied bombing campaign targeting the Ploie?ti oil fields finally paid dividends, that Germany would find itself in short supply.
Posted on 10/30/26 at 9:40 pm to weagle1999
It depends. If the US would have had, let’s say Donald Trump as president during that time, the US probably strikes a deal with Hitler and Nazi Germany, and the US keeps the third reich afloat.
Posted on 10/30/26 at 11:05 pm to thermal9221
quote:
Japan though fueled the industry that we call the MIC.
Yeah, sure. Explain to us how the emperor was a part of their military, industrial, and congressional congress? Yamamoto?
It's interesting how simplistic your view of how other countries operate is seemingly based entirely on how the US government does. Your mind would be blown at a Parliamentary system, I'm sure.
Posted on 10/31/26 at 1:26 am to sta4ever
quote:
It depends. If the US would have had, let’s say Donald Trump as president during that time, the US probably strikes a deal with Hitler and Nazi Germany, and the US keeps the third reich afloat.
Or he kicks the feces out of Romania (Venezuela) cutting off a key oil and REE source and cripples one of the Axis Big Three Italy (Iran) to the point that all they can do is harass the Mediterranean (Strait) shipping lanes that they could have previously closed well before festivities can be kicked off.
Japan remains bogged down in China under heavy economic sanctions (Russia in Ukraine now) except there is no longer a path to direct action for more resources against the US (Russia would like to attack the former Eastern Bloc countries) while Germany (China) is bottled up from the sea lanes by a USN that did not exist in 1940.
Note that FDR and Hitler somewhat admired each other (FDR's writings were required reading in the pre-1941 Hitler Youth) while Stalin openly allied himself with Hitler right up until the Wehrmacht was 100 miles across their border.
Know history. Be less of a TDS Parrot.
Posted on 10/31/26 at 4:46 am to LemmyLives
I’m talking about the war with Japan.
Posted on 10/31/26 at 7:31 am to Darth_Vader
Two Ocean Navy act of 1940 as well. I’m not a FDR fan, but he did see war on the horizon and prepped the nation for it. This act helped the Navy prep for the next gen of battleships and aircraft carriers needed.
Posted on 10/31/26 at 1:42 pm to TigerHornII
quote:
Know history. Be less of a TDS Parrot.
TDS affects the Far Left and the Far Right with equal severity
As an actual American patriot whose old man and all his uncles served in WWW II instead of dodging it with bone spurs, here is a primer.
#1 If you divide the USA instead of uniting it, you are not a patriot
#2 If you honor an image over those who's blood created honor, you are not a patriot
#3 If you put fear over faith in America, you are not a patriot
#4 If you blame the other side over accepting responsibility for what you do, you are a not a patriot
If you were not alive then or grew up in the immediate aftermath, get in your goonie goo goo go mobile and return forthwith to the China or Russian troll farm you came from and leave America to those actual blood, sweat, and tears patriots who actually had skin in the game.

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