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80 Years Ago Today: Operation Barbarossa
Posted on 6/22/21 at 12:15 am
Posted on 6/22/21 at 12:15 am
On June 22, 1941, Nazi Germany violated their non-aggression pact with the USSR and launched a massive full-scale invasion, starting the largest and most brutal single war between two countries in human history. This date marks the beginning of a total war, which Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin both considered to be a struggle for survival. The world will probably never see another war of the same size and scope of this war, with so many men, locations, weapons, etc, in play, not to mention the genocide. It truly was awful. RIP to all the young men who fought and died to serve the two evil dictators.
Some further reading about Barbarossa:
Some further reading about Barbarossa:
quote:
June 22 marks the 80th anniversary of the launch of Operation Barbarossa, the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union. Although the initial offensive caught the Soviets completely by surprise, penetrating hundreds of miles into Soviet territory and netting hundreds of thousands of prisoners, the advance eventually stalled in the face of Soviet resistance and the onset of “General Winter.”
quote:
In the days before the outbreak of World War II, Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin had concluded the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, a nonaggression treaty that secured Germany’s eastern flank and divided eastern Europe into German and Soviet spheres of influence. Stalin’s purge of the Red Army in 1937 had decimated the military’s high command, and the Soviets’ dismal performance against the heavily outnumbered Finns in the Russo-Finnish War (1939–40) had convinced Hitler that the Soviets were a threat that could be easily overcome. Indeed, the initial German successes seemed to support that conclusion.
quote:
Those successes came too late in the campaign season, however. The June 22 invasion date was more than a month later than German planners had intended, as Italian misfortunes in Greece and a coup in Yugoslavia had caused a redirection of German forces to the Balkans. By the time Fedor von Bock’s army had reached the suburbs of Moscow, winter had set in. Army Group North under Wilhelm von Leeb had settled into a protracted siege of Leningrad, and German troops along the line of advance found themselves ill-equipped to battle both the elements and a group of increasingly competent Soviet commanders. Although Germany continued to press the attack until disastrous battles at Stalingrad (July 1942–February 1943) and Kursk (July–August 1943), the failure of the initial blitzkrieg to achieve its objectives before the onset of winter had effectively consigned Hitler to the same fate as Napoleon. Moscow was a marsh light that lured each would-be conqueror to his ultimate undoing.
Posted on 6/22/21 at 12:19 am to red sox fan 13
Hitlers biggest blunder, the two front war
Posted on 6/22/21 at 12:19 am to red sox fan 13
It would have been interesting if they started in May. The Germans were absolutely blasting the Soviets until the weather bogged them down.
Posted on 6/22/21 at 12:21 am to TutHillTiger
quote:
Hitlers biggest blunder, the two front war
France declared war on Germany and Germany let them have it. There was only one front in 1941.
Posted on 6/22/21 at 12:23 am to The Boat
Soviets would have relocated to Kuybyshev deeper into the Soviet Union, probably would hit back with Siberian troops as they did in our timeline. German supply lines were far too overextended as far as they got in our timeline.
Posted on 6/22/21 at 12:26 am to red sox fan 13
It’s impossible to win a war when the other side doesn’t care how many of their own die. The Soviets would have let Moscow burn like they did in 1812 and not bat an eye.
Posted on 6/22/21 at 1:04 am to The Boat
The poor weather in May was the primary reason for the delay and the offensive was starting to run out of steam by the end of July, long before any poor weather hit.
Posted on 6/22/21 at 6:50 am to The Boat
quote:
It would have been interesting if they started in May. The Germans were absolutely blasting the Soviets until the weather bogged them down.
And if Germany coordinated with the Japanese with a joint attack.
Posted on 6/22/21 at 11:58 am to Alltheway Tigers!
quote:
And if Germany coordinated with the Japanese with a joint attack.
Or the Japanese have coordinated their actions. Pearl Harbor, for example, agree on when it would be more convenient for Hitler to strike together with the Japanese. As there Hitler wrote in his book "Skyscrapers and aerial bombardment a grand spectacle"
Posted on 6/22/21 at 1:01 pm to Alltheway Tigers!
quote:
And if Germany coordinated with the Japanese with a joint attack
Japan would have been a lot more successful had they targeted fuel tanks and ship maintenance/repair shops that were a little further inland and south of Pearl Harbor. Also, would have helped their cause had they struck the group of ships that was just a short distance away and NOT in harbor. But they didn't and we were able to piece together a naval force capable of fighting back relatively quickly due to that bungle by Japan. The rest is history.
Posted on 6/22/21 at 1:09 pm to red sox fan 13
Apt day to be wearing my vostok amphibia watch then
Posted on 6/22/21 at 1:23 pm to red sox fan 13
The most fascinating front of the war imo. It gets overshadowed in America due to our late involvement in Europe. The scale and ferocity of the eastern front is mind boggling.
I mean imagine 1,000 of Panzers and Soviet t34’s rolling across the Russian steppes and the Germans having to fight their way through three heavily defended rings of anti tank, infantry, minefields and armor. Basically what happened at the battle of Kursk. Would love to see a full scale movie on that but we will never get one.
Also, frick the Soviet’s for what they did to the poles and finns
I mean imagine 1,000 of Panzers and Soviet t34’s rolling across the Russian steppes and the Germans having to fight their way through three heavily defended rings of anti tank, infantry, minefields and armor. Basically what happened at the battle of Kursk. Would love to see a full scale movie on that but we will never get one.
Also, frick the Soviet’s for what they did to the poles and finns
Posted on 6/22/21 at 1:49 pm to red sox fan 13
Want D-Day June 6th same year? Hitler was an idiot on the battlefield. Genius at propaganda.
Posted on 6/22/21 at 1:53 pm to red sox fan 13
For those interested, there are some excellent animations of the entire eastern front war on YouTube.
Posted on 6/22/21 at 1:53 pm to red sox fan 13
Hitler truthfully fought the wrong kind of war. Instead of worrying about Great Britain he should have sent his UBoats and navy to choke off the Atlantic supply line to Stalin.
Even as late as the Stalingrad debacle when it became apparent he couldn't seize the Caucasus oil fields, he sure could have bombed the hell out of them and denied them to the Russians. Shut off their oil and supplies, the Red Army can't fight any more than anyone else can.
Even as late as the Stalingrad debacle when it became apparent he couldn't seize the Caucasus oil fields, he sure could have bombed the hell out of them and denied them to the Russians. Shut off their oil and supplies, the Red Army can't fight any more than anyone else can.
This post was edited on 6/22/21 at 1:56 pm
Posted on 6/22/21 at 2:04 pm to IAmNERD
quote:
Japan would have been a lot more successful had they targeted fuel tanks and ship maintenance/repair shops that were a little further inland and south of Pearl Harbo
This gets too hyped. Japanese carrier aircraft could not have caused enough long-term damage for this to have many any difference. Most of the fuel for the fleet was held in tanks underground at this point or would be soon if I remember correctly
Posted on 6/22/21 at 2:12 pm to geauxtigers87
quote:
This gets too hyped. Japanese carrier aircraft could not have caused enough long-term damage for this to have many any difference. Most of the fuel for the fleet was held in tanks underground at this point or would be soon if I remember correctly
I wasn't trying to say it would have left the US neutered in regards to naval power, but hitting that fuel storage, and more importantly, the repair facilities on the island and the other ships that were just a short distance from Pearl Harbor would have certainly diminished the Navy's capabilities for much longer. We were able to salvage or repair much of damaged vessels with supplies that were already on the islands at those repair facilities. And there was a massive fuel storage facility with multiple above ground storage tanks right there for the taking. Maybe those aren't that big of a deal, but if I'm attacking an enemy, I'm targeting everything within range to make it hurt as much as possible. Wether that be casualties, logistically, or monetarily.
What's not in doubt, though, is the Japanese were not nearly as effective as they could have been at Pearl Harbor.
Posted on 6/22/21 at 2:53 pm to IAmNERD
In an alternate history scenario I’ve always wondered what would have happened had the US not entered the war. I know it was obviously inevitable but without US lend lease supplies and the Japanese having the pacific under wraps could Russia have been conquered by the Japanese and Germans? Would operation sea lion been successful? Who knows but it’s fun to think about
Posted on 6/22/21 at 3:32 pm to The Boat
quote:
France declared war on Germany and Germany let them have it. There was only one front in 1941.
Yeah, and the Germans were kicking Soviet arse until 1942. Then, things started flaring up in 1942-43 in North Africa, Sicily, and Italy, and he had the Americans coming in.
Germany should have settled the score with the Brits, and then invaded the USSR.
Hitler didn't think long-term. He thought he would blitz the Soviets like he did everyone else. Problem was, the Soviets had a lot of territory to fight on. Fall back until General Winter took over.
This post was edited on 6/22/21 at 3:34 pm
Posted on 6/22/21 at 3:33 pm to TutHillTiger
quote:
Hitlers biggest blunder
Not wiping out the English at Dunkirk is a strong number two.
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