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re: 159 years ago today: all hell broke loose along the banks of the Tennessee River...
Posted on 4/6/21 at 5:24 pm to Tigeralum2008
Posted on 4/6/21 at 5:24 pm to Tigeralum2008
This isn’t meant to be an excuse for Lee’s failed strategy at Gettysburg, but has anyone else heard the rumor that it is thought Lee had a heart attack after the first day of battle?
Posted on 4/6/21 at 5:25 pm to michael corleone
quote:
Lee had two chances to essentially win the war at Gettysburg. On Day 1, if Ewell uses common sense , let alone follows order and takes Cemetery Hill , then Culp’s Hill, Lee is in the car bird’s seat. Ewell didn’t and Lee lost the high ground.
Ewell was told to take the hill if he thought it practicable. Ewell deemed it unpracticable and he had a good argument for doing so. Rodes' division was completely shot up in the fighting along Oak Ridge/McPherson's Ridge that afternoon. Early's division was totally disorganized after their victory over the Eleventh Corps and subsequent race through the town to bag prisoners. The only option he had at his disposal to attack Cemetery Hill with was Johnson's division and they weren't even on the field yet.
He turned to A.P. Hill's Corps for help but Hill could afford him none. Heth's division had been virtually destroyed in the fighting that day (plus Heth had almost died to boot). Pender's division had been badly mauled in the final assault against the First Corps on Seminary Ridge. Anderson's division was the only option for Hill to assist Ewell and they weren't on the field yet either.
At the end of the day, Ewell made a prudent decision. Cemetery Hill was a fortress in the early evening of July 1 and there was no way Ewell could have organized an attack force suitable enough to take it. Culp's Hill, however, was unoccupied but there was no way Ewell could know that in the moment. Even if he had and managed to take it, the Union army would have simply fallen back into Maryland rather than choosing to stay and fight the Confederates atop the high ground south of town.
quote:
On Day 2, if Lee allows Hood to move southeast and attack the rear of
flank , it likely breaks given the mmmmmm Sickles movement to low ground.
If Hood had moved southeast by himself he would have been isolated and destroyed by the Sixth Corps of John Sedgwick, which was moving up toward Gettysburg from that direction. Sedgwick had nearly 15,000 men under his command, by far the largest corps in the Union army, and would have dealt a crushing blow to Hood's flanking column - which would have been caught unawares due to the absence of JEB Stuart's cavalry screen.
Posted on 4/6/21 at 5:27 pm to UndercoverBryologist
Antietam was fricking brutal. Over 22k casualties in one day. Bloodiest day of the war.
Posted on 4/6/21 at 5:28 pm to RollTide1987
Screw grant, Lincoln, and Sherman
All are war criminals
All are war criminals
Posted on 4/6/21 at 5:34 pm to UndercoverBryologist
If you overlap the parts of the South that didn't vote for secession with the major battles of the Civil War, there's a strong correlation.
This post was edited on 4/6/21 at 5:36 pm
Posted on 4/6/21 at 6:05 pm to Buck_Rogers
Not really the case at Shiloh and his counter attack in that battle was a brilliant move. Grant’s entire campaign to take Vicksburg is nothing short of military brilliance. Commanding and sustaining massive armies requires as much quartermaster as it does tactics. Grant possessed both.
Lee largely achieved all his success against political hacks masquerading as generals. Once the professional soldiers moved in to command the union in Virginia that success ended. And for all his tactical brilliance, Lee losing the army of northern Virginia on a battlefield in Pennsylvania in a war of attrition is a complete blunder.
Lee largely achieved all his success against political hacks masquerading as generals. Once the professional soldiers moved in to command the union in Virginia that success ended. And for all his tactical brilliance, Lee losing the army of northern Virginia on a battlefield in Pennsylvania in a war of attrition is a complete blunder.
Posted on 4/6/21 at 6:17 pm to RollTide1987
Yep, did a boy scout trip there. Bloody Pond was the part that really impacted me. Imaging all of those wounded crawling off the battlefield to get to drink water that was red from the blood of the other wounded soldiers from both sides. That was a truly gruesome scene to envision.
Posted on 4/6/21 at 6:25 pm to RollTide1987
Johnston dying in that battle had long term consequences.
Vicksburg would likely have turned out differently.
Vicksburg would likely have turned out differently.
Posted on 4/6/21 at 6:30 pm to Wolfhound45
quote:
Toward the night of the 6th, Sherman approached Grant and stated “Well, Grant, we’ve had the devil’s own day, haven’t we.”
To which Grant replied, “Yes”, “Lick ‘em tomorrow, though”.
Just read a Sherman bio. One thing I learned was his take on the march to the sea and aftermath.
To paraphrase, he’s basically on record after the war as saying “everyone talks about the damage I did to Georgia in Atlanta and my march to the sea, but I REALLY fricked South Carolina, I’m surprised I don’t take more heat for that.”
This post was edited on 4/6/21 at 6:31 pm
Posted on 4/6/21 at 6:34 pm to GetCocky11
Yep. When you can land troops en masse into the heart of your enemy . You lose. The war was over in April of 1862 when Grant moves on Shiloh and Farragut took New Orleans.
Posted on 4/6/21 at 8:02 pm to udtiger
quote:
Johnston dying in that battle had long term consequences.
Very underrated comment itt. There’s a lot of people that held him in higher regard than Lee prior to his death.
Posted on 4/6/21 at 8:15 pm to Mstate
quote:Ironic actually. When the soldiers were alive they probably wanted to be buried in her.
My grandmother is buried near a lot of confederate and union soldiers actually
Posted on 4/6/21 at 8:46 pm to UndercoverBryologist
quote:
quote:
Tennessee River
quote:
Well momma got sick and daddy got down
The county got the farm and they moved to town
Papa got a job with the TVA
He bought a washin' machine and then a Chevrolet
That’s Song of the South, not Tennessee River.
Posted on 4/6/21 at 8:49 pm to peaster68
quote:
That’s Song of the South, not Tennessee River.
The group is from Fort Payne*, Alabama, which on the Tennessee River. I'm assuming the song is biographical, so it would have a connection to the river, as well.
*Admittedly, Fort Payne is 150 miles from Shiloh, but still.
Posted on 4/6/21 at 9:10 pm to peaster68
You do know the lyrics I referenced have the letters “TVA” in them? It’s not like it’s a big stretch using those lyrics as cute pop culture reference for those in the know.
Posted on 4/6/21 at 9:55 pm to UndercoverBryologist
It would have been better to use lyrics from their song “Tennessee River” then if you wanted to be cute.
Posted on 4/6/21 at 9:58 pm to peaster68
quote:
It would have been better to use lyrics from their song “Tennessee River” then if you wanted to be cute.
Noted for future reference.
Posted on 4/6/21 at 9:59 pm to michael corleone
quote:
But for Lee’s narcissism , the Confederates win that battle and the war.
Hubris might be a better word for Lee's actions and explain much.
But Stuart's misadventures in the saddle previous to the meeting engagement at Gettysburg, leaving Lee blind to his adversary's dispositions, strength, and movements also contributed to Lee's problems and subsequent decisions.
If Longstreet is to be believed, his advice to Lee to move and redeploy the Army of Northern Virginia positioning it between The Army of the Potomac and Philadelphia, Baltimore, and Washington on ground favorable to defend and receive attacks was sound. Foolishly Lee declined this advice.
Was it Lee's hubris, his worsening heart problems, or just wanting to try and end it then and there? Who knows?
A problem with the what did Lee do wrong is the implicit slight to The Army of The Potomac. The new CO George Meade performed admirably. John Buford's cavalrymen fighting a superior force dismounted as infantry holding the line until John Reynolds' Iron Brigade could become engaged and slow the Confederate advance. Chamberlain's (Vincent gets too little credit imo) stand at Little Round Top.
These actions by Federal troops and many others did as least as much to win the fight as Lee's actions did to lose it.
Interestingly, Shelby Foote titles his account of Gettysburg Stars In Their Courses.
They fought from heaven; the stars in their courses fought against Sisera.
The Book Of Judges 5:20
Posted on 4/6/21 at 10:01 pm to michael corleone
Your mention of Henry Heth reminds me of this quote of his (regarding his last place ranking at West Point and the pursuits of his much higher ranked roommate) “he was good but he was not happy. I was not good, but I was happy”
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