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The Athletic says Davenport worth all the 1st round picks we gave up

Posted on 12/6/19 at 7:40 am
Posted by David Bowman
Member since Jul 2019
200 posts
Posted on 12/6/19 at 7:40 am
quote:

How much were those two draft picks worth? Well, the 27th pick had a value of 680 points, going by the guide that Jimmy Johnson put together in the early ’90s as the head coach of the Dallas Cowboys. The 14th pick, where the Saints would end up, held a value of 1,100 points. So the difference was 420 points. On Johnson’s chart, that’s a mid-second-round pick. The first-round pick that New Orleans gave up ended up being the 30th (620 points). If we add the two values together, we get about 1,300 points (plus about 30 points from the fifth-rounder that was added) which is the equivalent to the 10th pick in the draft.


...then a lot of numbers and charts...

quote:

Essentially what this study has shown us is even if we take the value of Davenport’s draft picks and quantify him as being a “Top 10,” he is still outperforming the averages set by his peers in the 10-year study. If we take his actual draft status at 14 into consideration, he is well ahead of the established curve. Whether he is “two firsts” or just the Saints’ first-round selection of 2018, he is performing at or above the average. Not bad for a developmental draft pick.


Saints Film Room: Has Marcus Davenport been worth two first-round draft picks? (Pay Site)

quote:

Here are some of the key notes from the study:

Top 10 picks
Averaged 4.40 sacks in Year 1.
Averaged 7.62 sacks in year 2.
Averaged 4.97 sacks in Year 3.
The 2011 class really disrupted the balance here. Von Miller only played nine games in Year 3 and had five sacks, down from 18.5 the year prior. Aldon Smith went from 19.5 to 8.5 Year 2 to Year 3. All of these things affected the dynamic of Year 3 results vs. Year 2 for Top 10s.

First-rounders (11-32)
Averaged 3.76 Sacks in Year 1.
Averaged 5.18 sacks in Year 2.
Averaged 5.66 sacks in Year 3.
There seems to be a lot more “boom or bust” in the Top 10 and more consistency in the later parts of the first round. On average, we see a continual progression, much like how Saints defensive end Cameron Jordan developed (1->8->12.5)

Second-rounders (33-64)
Averaged 2.91 sacks in Year 1.
Averaged 3.82 sacks in Year 2.
Averaged 4.24 sacks in Year 3.
Of 16 top-10 selections, seven made the Pro Bowl within their first three years and four were voted All-Pro. Four of these players recorded 3.5 sacks or fewer in all of their first 3 years. Of 36 first-round selection: Seven made the Pro-Bowl within their first three years and four were voted All-Pro.

For reference, here is where Davenport stands in Year 2 among his direct peers:
4.5 Sacks in year 1.
6 sacks in year 2 (through 12 games).
Tied for 17th in the NFL in total pressures with 49, per Pro Football Focus
Leads all players from the 2018 draft class in pressures
Leads all players from the 2018 draft class in forced fumbles
Leads all players from the 2018 draft class in QB hits
Second among players from the 2018 draft class in sacks


There also some good film study in the article.
Posted by saints5021
Louisiana
Member since Jul 2010
17484 posts
Posted on 12/6/19 at 7:52 am to
I have no problem with the trade up, as Davenport oozes talent. The issue is he goes from dominating to disappearing to easily.

If you are going to trade up in the NFL draft, it should be for a QB, LT, or a DE. All other positions are interchangeable.
Posted by tigersquad89
Raleigh, NC
Member since Oct 2014
7897 posts
Posted on 12/6/19 at 7:57 am to
His numbers for playing roughly 50% of the snaps are pretty damn good. Hopefully we see that workload increase more and more each season.
Posted by jmcwhrter
Member since Nov 2012
6571 posts
Posted on 12/6/19 at 8:00 am to
is it him or Onyemata that keeps getting the Hands to the Face penalties? I can't hear the ref say the number over all of my cursing
Posted by FenrirTheBeard
NOLA
Member since Jun 2012
6433 posts
Posted on 12/6/19 at 9:01 am to
I remember when the league first realized they can hose us with Hands to the Face, Cam got a couple of them.
Posted by jmcwhrter
Member since Nov 2012
6571 posts
Posted on 12/6/19 at 9:12 am to
quote:

I remember when the league first realized they can hose us with Hands to the Face, Cam got a couple of them.


I wonder which coach tipped the refs to watch for it
Posted by bonethug0180
Avondale
Member since Jul 2018
4351 posts
Posted on 12/6/19 at 9:14 am to
quote:

Second among players from the 2018 draft class in sacks


Only behind Chubb who's had 20 starts in 20 games compared to Davenport's 12 starts in 25 games. He's 2.5 behind him.

Davenport has 927 snaps over that span compared to Chubb's 1080. So Davenport is doing as well or better when taking into account opportunities.
This post was edited on 12/6/19 at 9:15 am
Posted by bonethug0180
Avondale
Member since Jul 2018
4351 posts
Posted on 12/6/19 at 9:18 am to
Onyemata has had a couple at least Davenport may have gotten one. Cam has a couple.

They just call it on key downs. Sad part is that was sort of an equalizer for us never getting holding calls while they mugging Cam, but now we get no holding calls AND hands to the face against us.
Posted by IIxxBREADxxII
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2011
9739 posts
Posted on 12/6/19 at 9:18 am to
Wheres Volksboy or whatever the frick his name is ?
Posted by GynoSandberg
Member since Jan 2006
72029 posts
Posted on 12/6/19 at 9:28 am to
quote:

The issue is he goes from dominating to disappearing to easily.




Cam Jordan has played 701 snaps this season, and has a tackle/sack/TFL/QB hit on 13% of his snaps. Davenport has played 511 snaps and is at 11%. In your mind, these guys are "disappearing" 87% and 89% of the time

They cannot sack the QB every play. Drew Brees cannot throw at TD every possession. The Saints cannot win every game in perfect fashion by 2 TDs.
Posted by GMoney2600
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2005
14109 posts
Posted on 12/6/19 at 9:34 am to
quote:

Wheres Volksboy or whatever the frick his name is ?


You'll see him after Davenport has a bad game.
Posted by BobBoucher
Member since Jan 2008
16744 posts
Posted on 12/6/19 at 9:39 am to
quote:

You'll see him after Davenport has a quiet game.


FIfY.

Posted by mdomingue
Lafayette, LA
Member since Nov 2010
30347 posts
Posted on 12/6/19 at 10:14 am to
quote:

Wheres Volksboy or whatever the frick his name is ?



Should be Volksoyboy.
Posted by Pesadelo_Triangulo
Irving, TX.
Member since Jul 2018
60 posts
Posted on 12/6/19 at 11:55 am to
Seeing the players we could have gotten that would have hopefully solved our OL, CB, issues we have currently, I disagree that he was worth giving up what we did for him. Is he a decent player, and making some strides, yes. But does he give the consistent impact you would expect from someone you traded an extra 1st to get, I would say no. And is his production enough to offset what we could have gotten with that extra pick? No.
Posted by BreesyInBigEasy
Member since Sep 2019
770 posts
Posted on 12/6/19 at 11:59 am to
quote:

Seeing the players we could have gotten that would have hopefully solved our OL, CB, issues we have currently


What CB issues?

And we didn't have oline issues at the time

quote:

yes. But does he give the consistent impact you would expect from someone you traded an extra 1st to get, I would say no.


This post was edited on 12/6/19 at 12:00 pm
Posted by Pesadelo_Triangulo
Irving, TX.
Member since Jul 2018
60 posts
Posted on 12/6/19 at 12:07 pm to
I said CURRENTLY.... no one can know what WILL happen in the future, but we were not able address positions because we did not have that pick
(along with some other picks we traded away for other roster moves.)

Yes we have CB issues. Our back end has one and a possible as far as CBs. and if Latt goes down again we are screwed because no one else can truly cobver #2 WRs

and I stand by that comment that he does not give the CONSISTENT impact you would expect for someone you traded up to get with the next year's 1st. You may have a different opinion, but the stupid little laugh means nothing
Posted by sanora
Member since Feb 2019
1630 posts
Posted on 12/6/19 at 12:10 pm to
Posted by rt3
now in the piney woods of Pineville
Member since Apr 2011
141199 posts
Posted on 12/6/19 at 12:10 pm to
quote:

I wonder which coach tipped the refs to watch for it

I seem to recall it starting in the ATL game in the Superdome a few weeks ago

so... that d-bag
Posted by BreesyInBigEasy
Member since Sep 2019
770 posts
Posted on 12/6/19 at 12:30 pm to
quote:

Yes we have CB issues. Our back end has one and a possible as far as CBs. and if Latt goes down again we are screwed because no one else can truly cobver #2 WRs


We have a better situation at corner than almost every team in the NFL. Eli has been a very good #2, lattimore is a great #1, and PJ and Johnson play the slot well while being physical in the run game

And our back end? Or safety play has been absolutely awesome.

The issues on the offensive line have to do with trusting Peat. We replaced our center, we added depth, but the starter, who we picked up the option on, has been bad. I don't think that's a draft issue

And as far as production, what more do you actually want? He arguably won us the Panthers game with the FG block and leap, he has a ridiculous pressure %, and he's good against the run.

The article spells out why it was worth it with actual statistics unlike your unsupported opinion which means nothing
This post was edited on 12/6/19 at 12:35 pm
Posted by moneyg
Member since Jun 2006
56547 posts
Posted on 12/6/19 at 12:31 pm to
quote:

I have no problem with the trade up, as Davenport oozes talent


got it

quote:

The issue is he goes from dominating to disappearing to easily.

If you are going to trade up in the NFL draft, it should be for a QB, LT, or a DE. All other positions are interchangeable.





So you do have a problem with the trade up?
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