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re: So wait, we traded our 2nd this year and 1st next year?
Posted on 4/28/11 at 11:03 pm to L S Usetheforce
Posted on 4/28/11 at 11:03 pm to L S Usetheforce
quote:
Havent read the entire thread just got home but, Im with SFP on this. RBs are a dime a dozen. The falcons gave up the #27 pick and a 4th rounder this year and next to move into 6th! I feel like they got much better value. And i was pumped when i clicked back to the draft and saw we got ingram. now not as much. Would of rather taken bowers
Much better value............
They gave up way more than that.........
2
Posted on 4/28/11 at 11:04 pm to L S Usetheforce
quote:
Peyton Hillis, Micheal Turner, and numerous backs don't run 4.4 40's,
where were those 2 guys drafted at?
Posted on 4/28/11 at 11:04 pm to SlowFlowPro
I think it's a stretch to say that no RB would be valuable in the first round, or that RB's have no value in today's NFL. That's generalizing.
Certain running backs can be game changers for an offense.
I can't say for sure that Mark Ingram is that guy for the Saints, but no one can say for sure that he isn't, either.
My take on it is that we will never miss the picks traded to the Patriots to draft Ingram. It's a hell of a lot better than blowing two first rounders in the same draft to select Jonathan Sullivan. Now THAT was a waste. And it was for a player at a "safe," "valuable" position. Again... beware of generalization...
Certain running backs can be game changers for an offense.
I can't say for sure that Mark Ingram is that guy for the Saints, but no one can say for sure that he isn't, either.
My take on it is that we will never miss the picks traded to the Patriots to draft Ingram. It's a hell of a lot better than blowing two first rounders in the same draft to select Jonathan Sullivan. Now THAT was a waste. And it was for a player at a "safe," "valuable" position. Again... beware of generalization...
Posted on 4/28/11 at 11:05 pm to jacks40
quote:
what if Ryan Williams or Murray end up running for a 1000 yards?
This just isn't the way to argue.
What if Bowers or Kerrigan or White end up with better careers than Jordan?
Posted on 4/28/11 at 11:05 pm to L S Usetheforce
quote:
2) Peyton Hillis, Micheal Turner, and numerous backs don't run 4.4 40's, tone setters mean that as a unit they are going to run the ball against you physically for 4 quarters and by the time the game ends you will not want any of it.
those guys are like 240 lbs
Posted on 4/28/11 at 11:07 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
quote:
What if Bowers or Kerrigan or White end up with better careers than Jordan?
He will
Posted on 4/28/11 at 11:07 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i would have waited until the 4th-5th round to see what was availalbe
You mean like Antonio Pittman?
Your logic is flawed for a couple of reasons. First, you are confusing the trade with the pick. They are two different issues. I think what we gave up was definitely in the reasonable range. What is your opinion on this?
Second, you want to take the field against Ingram. Unfortunately, the Saints don't have that luxury. For your criticism to be valid, you have to be able to pinpoint a specific player in a specific round that you'd prefer over
You think your strategy is sound because you have no way of differentiating one RB from another...so you only use relative value of RBs vs other positions rather than a specific analysis of the situation and Ingram vs. other players who you project will be available.
Go ahead and give a list of players for each pick we have that you would prefer over Ingram at 28. You already said you wouldn't do it in the 2nd, so which players in the 3rd? Remember, if they aren't there at the pick you name, your plan fails.
This post was edited on 4/28/11 at 11:08 pm
Posted on 4/28/11 at 11:07 pm to L S Usetheforce
quote:
The falcons gave up the #27 pick and a 4th rounder this year and nex
Dude they gave up 1 2 4 this year and 1 and 4 next.
Posted on 4/28/11 at 11:07 pm to SpqrTiger
quote:
And it was for a player at a "safe," "valuable" position.
DTs aren't that safe in the draft, and their value is around the middle
pass rushers, QBs, LTs, CBs are your value positions. these are your rare guys
Posted on 4/28/11 at 11:08 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
hell, look at the guy you pointed out, hillis. what did he cost the browns?
Cost? you keep talking about cost?
What did the saints lose here? A 1st next year and their 2nd this year.......
So if Ingram takes us to an NFC championship essentially we drafted him in the same spot we just did and gave up a 2nd round pick for that kind of production.
I'm done arguing this move because I loved this 1st round..........Saints played for the moment in a time in which drafting a player may have a different contractual payset...........until the future is written the saints played for the now and I'm down with it.
Posted on 4/28/11 at 11:08 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
quote:
This just isn't the way to argue.
What if Bowers or Kerrigan or White end up with better careers than Jordan
if we were talking about taking just player A or B then yes, but when we are talking value and who else may have been there later so that we could have kept picks it is very relevant
Posted on 4/28/11 at 11:08 pm to SlowFlowPro
Soooooooooooo why aren't you working in a front office again?
Posted on 4/28/11 at 11:09 pm to bradwieser
quote:
Havent read the entire thread just got home but, Im with SFP on this. RBs are a dime a dozen. The falcons gave up the #27 pick and a 4th rounder this year and next to move into 6th! I feel like they got much better value. And i was pumped when i clicked back to the draft and saw we got ingram. now not as much. Would of rather taken bowers
You are misinformed.
The falcons gave up a 1, 2, and 4 this year and a 1 and 4 next year.
Posted on 4/28/11 at 11:10 pm to moneyg
quote:
You mean like Antonio Pittman?
one example
how about like...pierre thomas
quote:
I think what we gave up was definitely in the reasonable range.
typically you give up 1 round better the next year, so the trade was about par the course
quote:
Second, you want to take the field against Ingram. Unfortunately, the Saints don't have that luxury. For your criticism to be valid, you have to be able to pinpoint a specific player in a specific round that you'd prefer over
this makes no sense
assuming the saints had the ammo to trade up to any pick after our first, 1st rounder (which we showed we did), the saints DID have the luxury of picking "the field" compared to ingram
quote:
You think your strategy is sound because you have no way of differentiating one RB from another...so you only use relative value of RBs vs other positions rather than a specific analysis of the situation and Ingram vs. other players who you project will be available.
i was hoping we'd take a late round flyer and pick up a vet in FA for cheap
Posted on 4/28/11 at 11:11 pm to L S Usetheforce
quote:
What did the saints lose here? A 1st next year and their 2nd this year.......
So if Ingram takes us to an NFC championship essentially we drafted him in the same spot we just did and gave up a 2nd round pick for that kind of production.
If we go to the NFC championship I think it would be more on the shoulders of Drew, an improved defense, and better oline play, than Ingram "taking us there
Posted on 4/28/11 at 11:11 pm to L S Usetheforce
I don't think we gave up that much if he's considered to be valuable to this team. Measurables like 40-times and size don't calculate value.
Ingram has proven he is a durable back that can handle lots of carries, not fumble and pick up tough yards, all areas we had trouble with last year.
We have one of the best QBs in football, so we're not drafting Ingram to carry the offense. As long as he does his job, this offense will only improve, something the rest of the league doesn't want to see the Saints do.
Ingram has proven he is a durable back that can handle lots of carries, not fumble and pick up tough yards, all areas we had trouble with last year.
We have one of the best QBs in football, so we're not drafting Ingram to carry the offense. As long as he does his job, this offense will only improve, something the rest of the league doesn't want to see the Saints do.
Posted on 4/28/11 at 11:11 pm to L S Usetheforce
quote:
What did the saints lose here? A 1st next year and their 2nd this year.......
yes
quote:
So if Ingram takes us to an NFC championship essentially we drafted him in the same spot we just did and gave up a 2nd round pick for that kind of production.
what if we could have gotten another back to take us there for less? then we'd be in the same position with a 2nd round pick
Posted on 4/28/11 at 11:11 pm to L S Usetheforce
quote:
L S Usetheforce
I agree. I like the pick.
I also do not question SP and ML and their draft picks. They've been very good at drafting, and I think this may be one of their 1st rounds thus far. We still have 2 3rd rounds, we can probably give up a 3rd and next year's 5th or something and move into the 2nd if there's someone SP really wants. I'd be willing to bet that there's nobody that's worthy of a 2nd round pick that SP/ML really want and plenty in the 2 picks of the 3rd round that they really want.
Posted on 4/28/11 at 11:11 pm to L S Usetheforce
quote:
until the future is written the saints played for the now and I'm down with it.
isn't this exactly the type of thinking that is hated on this board? reaching for need and not BPA?
Posted on 4/28/11 at 11:12 pm to SlowFlowPro
new to this side of the board but excited Ingram will be a Saint obviously, but I dont see how a first round pick next yr will be that bad considering it will likely be a very late pick anyway and the Saints just picked up the number one back in the draft. I dont know much but if anything I wanted to see them go after Bowers for a pass rush; isnt he considered a great pass rusher?
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