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Started By
Message
re: Saints Trade for Broncos WR Devaugn Vele
Posted on 8/22/25 at 9:00 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 8/22/25 at 9:00 am to SlowFlowPro
"One in the hand is worth two in the bush" lol
0
Posted on 8/22/25 at 9:14 am to UncleRuckus
quote:
Lmao. A 4th for Vele is WAY too much. Terribly ran organization
Let's test your theory. Let's look at last year's 4th round wide receivers:
Troy Franklin, Den 28 for 263 yds, 2 TD (The guy Payton is keeping over Vele)
Javon Baker, NE: Nothing
Devontez Walker, Bal. 1 for 21 yds, 1 TD
Jacob Cowing, SF: 4 for 80 yds
Vele's numbers: 41 for 475 yds, 3 TD
I'd day he's more than worth a 4th rounder.
Posted on 8/22/25 at 9:22 am to Dantheman504
quote:
It just wasn't really a need through the Brees era and hasn't been the biggest need through the post Brees era.
bullshite
The lack of a 2nd WR during the Micheal Thomas era really hurt this team. Guys like trequan smith and ginn were your WR2 for years. We were screwed when Thomas got locked up in the playoffs or when get got hurt. Best we had was past his prime manny sanders, who Brees still limped us to a 12-4 when Thomas got hurt. Imagine having another legit WR, especially that year. Callaway and Harty were your leading WR the next year
And Payton wasn’t a great WR drafter, he was good at finding UDFA. Guys like Henderson, Meachem, Smith were drafted high but if you took all the best seasons of those guys and guys like Moore or Will Snead, the undrafted guys cleared the high picks. Brees kept Devery, Trequen and Meachem in the league. Devery gave you a nice ROI at the end of the day, the other two not so much
Posted on 8/22/25 at 9:26 am to GynoSandberg
If we are going with young QBs for the foreseeable future, we need to invest in pass catchers and protectors.
I don't hate going for a guy you think can be starter, particularly with a skillset no one on your roster has.
Now the question is do you keep 5 or 6 WRs.
Because to me 5 seem to be locked
Olave
Shaheed
Vele
Cooks
Tipton
I don't hate going for a guy you think can be starter, particularly with a skillset no one on your roster has.
Now the question is do you keep 5 or 6 WRs.
Because to me 5 seem to be locked
Olave
Shaheed
Vele
Cooks
Tipton
Posted on 8/22/25 at 9:27 am to bstaceyau19
quote:You can probably stretch this out for years and average what 4th round receivers do and it won't come close to Vele's numbers last year.
Let's look at last year's 4th round wide receivers
People truly think a 4th rounder = starter. The hit rate on 4th rounders even lasting 4 years in the league is around 20% iirc. Not starting, just even staying through their first contract.
Posted on 8/22/25 at 9:37 am to GynoSandberg
quote:
It just wasn't really a need through the Brees era and hasn't been the biggest need through the post Brees era.
quote:
bullshite
quote:
Brees still limped us to a 12-4 when Thomas got hurt. Imagine having another legit WR, especially that year
quote:
Brees kept Devery, Trequen and Meachem in the league
You just confirmed it was not our biggest need considering we didn't have a #1 and still went 12-4. That was pretty much the point of what I said. And when Drew started getting worse or left then WR definitely wasn't our biggest need. My response was directed to "not be able to draft WR/ TE's" when we simply just didn't. You even doubled down on my point by highlighting the impact of MT who was one of our few high end draft picks. So thank you for confirming all of that for me. Trequan/ Trautman were the worst 2 on that list and neither were picked in the 1st or 2nd rd. You don't take a WR with your #1-#2 without a future QB and with many other holes on the roster.
This post was edited on 8/22/25 at 10:27 am
Posted on 8/22/25 at 9:53 am to bonethug0180
quote:
The hit rate on 4th rounders even lasting 4 years in the league is around 20%
And a lot of those guys are lineman. It's easier for mid round lineman to make it because there are fewer of them out there than guys who can run, catch, and do routes.
Posted on 8/22/25 at 9:58 am to bonethug0180
Multiple 4ths can also be used to move up to acquire other talent so let’s not operate in a vacuum and strictly compare him to other 4th rd WRs, that’s Nick Underhill Loomis spin zone crap
It’s a very upside move, if Payton were high on him he wouldn’t be reaching in round 3 for Bryant.
It’s a very upside move, if Payton were high on him he wouldn’t be reaching in round 3 for Bryant.
Posted on 8/22/25 at 10:19 am to bonethug0180
4th round receivers over the last 20 years:
2006
Brad Smith
Cory Rodgers
Jason Avant
Demetrius Williams
Will Blackmon Packers
Brandon Marshall
Skyler Green
Domenik Hixon
2007
Ryne Robinson
Chris Davis
2008
William Franklin
Marcus Smith
Arman Shields
Lavelle Hawkins
Keenan Burton
2009
Mike Thomas (Jags, not our Michael Thomas)
Brian Hartline
Louis Murphy
Austin Collie
2010
Mardy Gilyard
Mike Williams
Marcus Easley
Jacoby Ford
2011
Kris Durham
Edmond Gates
Greg Salas
Cecil Shorts
Tandon Doss
2012
Chris Givens
Travis Benjamin
Joe Adams
Devon Wylie
Jarius Wright
Keshawn Martin
Nick Toon
Greg Childs
2013
Ace Sanders
Josh Boyce
Chris Harper
Quinton Patton
2014
Jalen Saunders
Bruce Ellington
Shaq Evans
Martavis Bryant
Kevin Norwood
2015
Jamison Crowder
Justin Hardy
Vince Mayle
DeAndre Smelter
2016
Chris Moore
Malcolm Mitchell
Ricardo Louis
Pharoh Cooper
Demarcus Robinson
2017
Dede Westbrook
Josh Reynolds
Mack Hollins
Josh Malone
Ryan Switzer
Jehu Chesson
Chad Hansen
2018
Keke Coutee
Antonio Callaway
DaeSean Hamilton
Jaleel Scott
J'Mon Moore
2019
Hakeem Butler
Gary Jennings
Riley Ridley
2020
Gabriel Davis
Antonio Gandy-Golden
2021
Dez Fitzpatrick
Amon-Ra St. Brown
Jaelon Darden
Tylan Wallace
2022
Erik Ezukanma
Romeo Doubs
Calvin Austin
2023
Derius Davis
Charlie Jones
Tyler Scott
2024
Troy Franklin
Javon Baker
Devontez Walker
Jacob Cowing
2025
Chimere Dike
Dont'e Thornton
Arian Smith
Jaylin Lane
Jalen Royals
Elic Ayomanor
Jordan Watkins
2006
Brad Smith
Cory Rodgers
Jason Avant
Demetrius Williams
Will Blackmon Packers
Brandon Marshall
Skyler Green
Domenik Hixon
2007
Ryne Robinson
Chris Davis
2008
William Franklin
Marcus Smith
Arman Shields
Lavelle Hawkins
Keenan Burton
2009
Mike Thomas (Jags, not our Michael Thomas)
Brian Hartline
Louis Murphy
Austin Collie
2010
Mardy Gilyard
Mike Williams
Marcus Easley
Jacoby Ford
2011
Kris Durham
Edmond Gates
Greg Salas
Cecil Shorts
Tandon Doss
2012
Chris Givens
Travis Benjamin
Joe Adams
Devon Wylie
Jarius Wright
Keshawn Martin
Nick Toon
Greg Childs
2013
Ace Sanders
Josh Boyce
Chris Harper
Quinton Patton
2014
Jalen Saunders
Bruce Ellington
Shaq Evans
Martavis Bryant
Kevin Norwood
2015
Jamison Crowder
Justin Hardy
Vince Mayle
DeAndre Smelter
2016
Chris Moore
Malcolm Mitchell
Ricardo Louis
Pharoh Cooper
Demarcus Robinson
2017
Dede Westbrook
Josh Reynolds
Mack Hollins
Josh Malone
Ryan Switzer
Jehu Chesson
Chad Hansen
2018
Keke Coutee
Antonio Callaway
DaeSean Hamilton
Jaleel Scott
J'Mon Moore
2019
Hakeem Butler
Gary Jennings
Riley Ridley
2020
Gabriel Davis
Antonio Gandy-Golden
2021
Dez Fitzpatrick
Amon-Ra St. Brown
Jaelon Darden
Tylan Wallace
2022
Erik Ezukanma
Romeo Doubs
Calvin Austin
2023
Derius Davis
Charlie Jones
Tyler Scott
2024
Troy Franklin
Javon Baker
Devontez Walker
Jacob Cowing
2025
Chimere Dike
Dont'e Thornton
Arian Smith
Jaylin Lane
Jalen Royals
Elic Ayomanor
Jordan Watkins
Posted on 8/22/25 at 10:28 am to BilJ
quote:The point is to find how his value relates to other receivers/players taken in the 4th.
Multiple 4ths can also be used to move up to acquire other talent
Of course multiple picks can be used to trade up, but look up the value of a 4th and tell me how many is needed for a 3rd? A 2nd? That has nothing to do with finding THIS player's value though, but if you want to bring that subject in actually bring in the facts of it as well.
Posted on 8/22/25 at 10:31 am to BilJ
quote:
It’s a very upside move, if Payton were high on him he wouldn’t be reaching in round 3 for Bryant.
Yep.
Posted on 8/22/25 at 10:32 am to Dantheman504
quote:
You just confirmed it was not our biggest need considering we didn't have a #1 and still went 12-4
Naw. You lost 30-20 in the divisional vs Brady throwing to scrubs when Thomas was banged up. Thomas was shut down in the conference title bout vs the Rams and the divisional vs Minnesota.
It’s fine to run out a stars and scrubs lineup in the regular season. You play a lot of bad teams too. The lack of another WR was glaring in the postseason when it mattered vs good teams. The offense was nonexistent in those games when they took out MT13
Posted on 8/22/25 at 10:36 am to GynoSandberg
quote:
You lost 30-20 in the divisional vs Brady throwing to scrubs when Thomas was banged up. Thomas was shut down in the conference title bout vs the Rams and the divisional vs Minnesota.
It’s fine to run out a stars and scrubs lineup in the regular season
Bro you are talking about things happening in the playoffs. We are one of the worst teams in the NFL without a solidified QB and before that had an aging Drew who mainly checked down anyway. You are responding to my comment about drafting high end WR/ TE that has nothing to do with not having those guys in the playoffs. We aren't even thinking about playoffs because we have so many holes and that's why we aren't drafting a #1 Wr/ TE that can impact a playoff team. Idk what your point is, especially bringing up playoff stats. You are trying to say we didn't have WR's but we did indeed have WRs good enough to make the playoffs.
Again you are proving my point. Once we fill other holes and have a team that is capable of making the playoffs you then draft high end TE/ WR's. We don't even have a QB and aren't a playoff team. That is the reason we haven't drafted those guys and not because we aren't capable.
This post was edited on 8/22/25 at 10:46 am
Posted on 8/22/25 at 10:58 am to NOSA
quote:
Obviously he has a huge contract but Deebo Samuel was traded for a 5th.
Huge contract. You said it yourself.
quote:
Pickens a 3rd and 5th for a 6th.
So Dallas gave up more for a player the Steelers wanted to be rid of who is in the last year of his rookie deal.
I'm not saying we have to love the trade, but compared to both of these it's not a bad deal with Day 3 picks involved.
Posted on 8/22/25 at 11:12 am to Dantheman504
You said we drafted WR well and it wasn’t a need in the Drew era, when it arguably costed you 3 of Brees’ better seasons with the 3 playoff losses when we couldn’t move the ball
Brees made a lot of things work - bad defenses, makeshift OLs, off the street WRs - still doesn’t mean it was sufficient enough when it mattered.
Brees made a lot of things work - bad defenses, makeshift OLs, off the street WRs - still doesn’t mean it was sufficient enough when it mattered.
Posted on 8/22/25 at 11:15 am to LSUZombie
quote:
Huge contract. You said it yourself.
We have cap room to take it on.
And Debo is like 2 years older than Vele, to put Vele's age into perspective
quote:
So Dallas gave up more for a player the Steelers wanted to be rid of who is in the last year of his rookie deal.
Who has #1 potential and is only 24 years old.
quote:
both of these it's not a bad deal with Day 3 picks involved.
Posted on 8/22/25 at 11:18 am to bstaceyau19
quote:
Let's test your theory. Let's look at last year's 4th round wide receivers:
Troy Franklin, Den 28 for 263 yds, 2 TD (The guy Payton is keeping over Vele)
Javon Baker, NE: Nothing
Devontez Walker, Bal. 1 for 21 yds, 1 TD
Jacob Cowing, SF: 4 for 80 yds
Vele's numbers: 41 for 475 yds, 3 TD
I'd day he's more than worth a 4th rounder.
Why would you limit your analysis to last year's 4th rounders? It would be much more meaningful if you looked at 4th rounders in years 2 and 3 and compare.
Posted on 8/22/25 at 11:54 am to moneyg
no reason to give up a 4 for this trade
49ers just got RB Robinson for a 6th
49ers just got RB Robinson for a 6th
Posted on 8/22/25 at 11:59 am to nicholastiger
Great point as we badly need a WR and don't need a RB.
Posted on 8/22/25 at 12:05 pm to moneyg
quote:
Why would you limit your analysis to last year's 4th rounders? It would be much more meaningful if you looked at 4th rounders in years 2 and 3 and compare.
Someone just did that a few posts ago...go look at the names. A lot of nothing.
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