re: Roster predictions

He will cost $6 mil(or whatever it is) whether we cut or keep him. We have younger/cheaper guys on the roster already and can draft one also.

Plus why does everyone think Smith will agree to the vet minimum? Has he taken the pay cut yet? And if he does do you think it will be to the minimum?

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Bduhon55

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If Smith and Vilma are kept, it will not be at their current salaries. That is the point of asking them to take a pay cut. No way either guy is on the team at those prices.

Yep, you can. Trust me, there was a long debate on this board about it.

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If Smith and Vilma are kept, it will not be at their current salaries

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I don't remember saying they would be.

Going by BDuhon's numbers, Keeping them will cost at least $4.4 + vet min for Smith and $2.6 + vet min for Vilma, assuming they would agree to that. What's vet min for them? It's likely at least another $2 mil to keep both, or we could roll with the young guys we have/draft for under a million.

And Harper is due bonus money, so cutting him will not save his whole salary(don't have numbers on him).

The main thing some people are missing is that Vilma/Smith have to agree to such a huge cut.

Let's say they won't take vet min but agree to $3 mil each. That's another $6 mil for guys who are poor scheme fits.

Harper is $7 mil and a great scheme fit. So for only a million more you could have one great guy, or you could save a million and have 2 poor guys.

But like I said, we don't know what these guys want. You wanting them to take vet minimum does not mean they will.

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Let's say player x is on a one year deal and costs $10 mil, $6 mil in bonus and $4 mil in salary. If we cut said player we would save $4 mil but still owe the $6 mil bonus. If we dropped him to vet minimum(let's say for player x it's $1 mil) we would owe $7 mil(the $6 mil bonus plus the $1 mil salary). There is no way to eliminate the bonus. That has to be paid since it was up front money. So cutting Smith and Vilma will be cheaper than keeping them no matter how much of a pay cut they take. You cannot eliminate their bonuses in negotiation.

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Thanks for explanation

Smith and Vilma just don't fit anymore

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I don't remember saying they would be

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Will Smith is due to get a roster bonus at the end of Mar, so if he is cut it will come before that but most likely way before because FA starts Tuesday. If Smith is cut and designated as a June 1st cut he will count $4,391,666 towards the 2013 cap compared to $14,451,666 if kept.

John Vilma being released would count $2,632,500 towards the 2013 cap, compared to $8,632,500 if kept.

Cutting both of these players would put the Saints at $3,999,176 going into FA.

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I assumed when you posted what I quoted here that you didn't understand that they wouldn't be kept at those salaries.

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Wtf are you talking about. I'm not calling Loomis and Payton anything

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You are saying there is no way that it makes sense cap wise to keep Vilma and Smith. You said this is common sense. Loomis and Payton are offering them pay cuts to stay. I'm guessing they wouldn't do this unless it was a better option than straight up releasing them. But by your words, this being common sense and all, you are calling them idiots because they don't understand common sense.

What I'm saying is that it's cheaper to release them no matter what. Personally I think they are poor scheme fits, but they are the leaders of the defense.

The reason Payton wants to keep them is because they are smart players and great locker room guys. If they agree to enough of a pay cut I could see the saints keeping them(I said as much in my first post).

Just because it makes the most sense cap wise to cut them doesn't mean it makes the most sense team wise to do so. Payton still values their leadership and if they cooperate they will still.

Next time read my posts and don't jump to conclusions.