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Nice breakdown of the Saints cap situation by K. Terrell
Posted on 2/14/23 at 7:06 am
Posted on 2/14/23 at 7:06 am
ESPN -Terrell
Still seems like a lot of kicking the can down the road will have to take place, but the only other option is to do nothing and lose players and carry teh dead money until you get out from under the cap albatross. That would likely be at least two years of picking top 3-5.
quote:
NEW ORLEANS -- Saints general manager Mickey Loomis would one day like to see a future where New Orleans isn't at the bottom of the salary cap standings.
But the Saints have a lot of work to do to get there.
The salary cap is expected to be set at $224.8 million, a jump from the 2022 cap of $208.2 million. It's back on the upward trend after dropping in 2021 because of the COVID-19 pandemic. The Saints were $55 million over the salary cap when the NFL informed teams of their pending cap space in late January, according to Roster Management System.
That's not nearly as bad as in 2021, when the Saints were $100 million in the red. There were some consequences to that, such as defensive end Trey Hendrickson signing with the Cincinnati Bengals and a quiet free agency year, with rotational defensive end Tanoh Kpassagnon being their biggest addition.
Still seems like a lot of kicking the can down the road will have to take place, but the only other option is to do nothing and lose players and carry teh dead money until you get out from under the cap albatross. That would likely be at least two years of picking top 3-5.
7
Posted on 2/14/23 at 7:11 am to Snipe
quote:
Saints general manager Mickey Loomis would one day like to see a future where New Orleans isn't at the bottom of the salary cap standings. But the Saints have a lot of work to do to get there.
How does Loomis reconcile this with adding Carr? I wonder if he’s as stupid as he thinks we are.
Posted on 2/14/23 at 7:13 am to Snipe
quote:
but the only other option is to do nothing and lose players and carry teh dead money until you get out from under the cap albatross.
This reality is going to occur at some point. The longer we do this dance, the worse it will be and longer it will take to get out from it. Also, as we keep doing this dance, the dead cap we have to eat prevents us from filling out our roster, so even if we're trying to win, we're doing it with one arm tied behind our back.
Signing Carr will be like dropping a nuke on this situation.
Posted on 2/14/23 at 7:17 am to Snipe
quote:
Saints general manager Mickey Loomis would one day like to see a future where New Orleans isn't at the bottom of the salary cap standings.
Then prove it Mickey. Do the right thing and take your lumps after years of kicking the can.
Posted on 2/14/23 at 7:29 am to Geauxldilocks
quote:
How does Loomis reconcile this with adding Carr? I wonder if he’s as stupid as he thinks we are.
Did you read any further? The article gives quite detailed information on how it can actually happen.
Posted on 2/14/23 at 7:34 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
This reality is going to occur at some point. The longer we do this dance, the worse it will be and longer it will take to get out from it. Also, as we keep doing this dance, the dead cap we have to eat prevents us from filling out our roster, so even if we're trying to win, we're doing it with one arm tied behind our back.
Signing Carr will be like dropping a nuke on this situation.
You can get out from under it without the nuclear option of imploding it all but it will take longer and while you won't completely suck you'll be middle to middle low mediocre for many years. Teams most of the time get lost in the purgatory and have a kart time finding their way out.
You're right though the bill comes due at some point. I'm still on the side of trading assets for draft picks and building a young core on rookie or journeyman contracts until you have the cap room to make your big moves.
Posted on 2/14/23 at 7:36 am to Snipe
quote:
The article gives quite detailed information on how it can actually happen.
Right. By pushing a ton of money out again. If you had a great coach and qb I could see that strategy continuing to work to have some more cracks at it.
We have neither and our ceiling is maybe around the wc if everything goes right.
This post was edited on 2/14/23 at 7:38 am
Posted on 2/14/23 at 7:37 am to St Augustine
You qualified to be a gm?
Posted on 2/14/23 at 7:39 am to Proximo
No just a message board poster where people discuss things.
Crazy that I read the OPs link and commented on it I know.
Crazy that I read the OPs link and commented on it I know.
This post was edited on 2/14/23 at 7:40 am
Posted on 2/14/23 at 7:41 am to Snipe
quote:
You can get out from under it without the nuclear option of imploding it all but it will take longer and while you won't completely suck you'll be middle to middle low mediocre for many years.
With our situation that would take, literally, like 6-7 years. We have contracts we cannot do anything with, like Taysom Hill's. I went into detail about that specific contract in my thread from a while back that covered what we can do (like article in OP).
All we can do is extend Taysom and make his cap hit balloon and force us to extend him again. We don't have the room to make it work with our cap situation.
We are creating similar scenarios with Latt, Ram, and Cam (after we turn salary into signing bonus again).
quote:
I'm still on the side of trading assets for draft picks
I don't think we can trade anyone of any real value. We can't trade Latt or Ram, and they are the most valuable guys on our team.
Posted on 2/14/23 at 7:43 am to Proximo
quote:
You qualified to be a gm?
You don't need to be a GM to be able to do simple math necessary to analyze NFL cap situations.
Onyamata is likely not going to be re-signed and will count more than $10M against our cap due to all the void years we used.
Imagine what will happen with Cam's contract down the road
Posted on 2/14/23 at 7:44 am to Snipe
The smart idea is honestly take your lumps this year. But Dennis Allen knows his seat is hot and won't be okay with it unless the team gives him a confirmation losing would be expected.
Reality is they see the south wide open for the taking and short sighted will prevail while the other 3 teams load up for future.
Reality is they see the south wide open for the taking and short sighted will prevail while the other 3 teams load up for future.
Posted on 2/14/23 at 7:49 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I don't think we can trade anyone of any real value. We can't trade Latt or Ram, and they are the most valuable guys on our team.
If this is truly the case then everyone complaining about restructuring contracts is just kicking the can and prolonging the impending doom (Including myself) are complaining for nothing because that is the only option.
Can't cut them because of cap implications, can't trade them because of cap implications, can't do nothing because they're 57 million over the cap and have to get under in a few weeks so extending and restructuring to spread out the damage is the ONLY option available.
This post was edited on 2/14/23 at 7:51 am
Posted on 2/14/23 at 7:54 am to Snipe
quote:
If this is truly the case then everyone complaining about restructuring contracts is just kicking the can and prolonging the impending doom (Including myself) are complaining for nothing because that is the only option.
Can't cut them because of cap implications, can't trade them because of cap implications, can't do nothing because they're 57 million over the cap and have to get under in a few weeks so extending and restructuring to spread out the damage is the ONLY option available.
What it means is that any rebuilding project will take years. I made a thread specifically about this a while back.
The issue is, each BS shenanigan we implement will extend that timeframe when the time comes. Eventually the dead cap will catch up to you and you won't have enough base salaries to manipulate. That's why you can't just keep kicking the can down the road. A major QB contract is a nuclear bomb being dropped on this situation.
This post was edited on 2/14/23 at 7:55 am
Posted on 2/14/23 at 8:22 am to SlowFlowPro
frick a rebuild ... a 7-10 season was miserable enough. It is not like this is an old roster. Soft rebuild is what you do when you have young cornerstones like Ram and Lat.
Posted on 2/14/23 at 9:05 am to saints5021
quote:
frick a rebuild ... a 7-10 season was miserable enough. It is not like this is an old roster. Soft rebuild is what you do when you have young cornerstones like Ram and Lat.
What exactly do you think we’re going to be able to do with no long term answer at qb, a shitty coaching staff, and a terrible cap situation? At some point you have to rip the bandaid off or you will just continue to trend down record wise anyway while still being up against it cap wise.
This post was edited on 2/14/23 at 9:06 am
Posted on 2/14/23 at 9:17 am to Snipe
quote:
Saints general manager Mickey Loomis would one day like to see a future where New Orleans isn't at the bottom of the salary cap standings.
Posted on 2/14/23 at 9:35 am to Snipe
quote:
If this is truly the case then everyone complaining about restructuring contracts is just kicking the can and prolonging the impending doom (Including myself) are complaining for nothing because that is the only option.
Can't cut them because of cap implications, can't trade them because of cap implications, can't do nothing because they're 57 million over the cap and have to get under in a few weeks so extending and restructuring to spread out the damage is the ONLY option available.
There are players that can be cut/traded, but it will be a drawn-out process to finally get from out of the cap hell created by Loomis & Payton. If they would just do the bare minimum, rely on cheap vets & rookies; you most likely see relief in 2025/2026. But, that is also asking a GM/HC to just accept the fact that the team will suck for the next 3-5 years when their jobs are based on winning. Therefore, they will continue to make drastic moves and hope the cap keeps jumping up until we're at a point where it's at least manageable.
Posted on 2/14/23 at 11:44 am to Weekend Warrior79
You have guys like Winston that will be cut with about an $11 Million cap hit by himself in dead money.
This was always the problem as others said. Add in that Brees never really took a discount like some of the others, and this is what it gets you.
In the end, the Saints are destined to be mediocre for the next 5 years even if they kick the can down the road. The worst part about it is that even IF you somehow land a top tier QB draft pick next year, the team will be in Cap Hell likely until he is due to be paid big.
As SFP and others have said, there is no quick fix and just suck for two years. You can't even cut/trade some of these guys because of the dead money and being so far over the cap to start. Unless a bunch of guys retire all at once, Saints are going to be hurting for years. This is the price they paid for 1 Super Bowl ironically.
This was always the problem as others said. Add in that Brees never really took a discount like some of the others, and this is what it gets you.
In the end, the Saints are destined to be mediocre for the next 5 years even if they kick the can down the road. The worst part about it is that even IF you somehow land a top tier QB draft pick next year, the team will be in Cap Hell likely until he is due to be paid big.
As SFP and others have said, there is no quick fix and just suck for two years. You can't even cut/trade some of these guys because of the dead money and being so far over the cap to start. Unless a bunch of guys retire all at once, Saints are going to be hurting for years. This is the price they paid for 1 Super Bowl ironically.
Posted on 2/14/23 at 1:39 pm to Geauxgurt
quote:
In the end, the Saints are destined to be mediocre for the next 5 years even if they kick the can down the road. The worst part about it is that even IF you somehow land a top tier QB draft pick next year, the team will be in Cap Hell likely until he is due to be paid big.
That's why 24 maybe 25 is the year you target your Qb of the future. We only need a competent QB to steer the ship through the rebuild. Maybe take out a flyer on a middle round QB to try to groom into our future back up this draft but probably no unless Hooker is there at 71. Which he might be.
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