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Let's revisit our recent history (A pseudo-defense of Gayle and Mickey)
Posted on 1/6/25 at 1:45 pm
Posted on 1/6/25 at 1:45 pm
I'm totally open to the fact that Loomis is one the main culprits behind where we find ourselves now. If I owned the Saints I'd definitely make a change and have the league help me bring in an entirely new slate.
With that said, do we 100% know that Loomis wasn't following orders from the widow to try and have the soft transition while keeping the Saints competitive? Might we want to give her (a new owner likely overwhelmed by the situation she found herself in) the benefit of the doubt in wanting to be competitive and keep the last vestiges of the very good roster that her husband oversaw a chance to succeed? And shouldn't we give her one more chance to make the right coaching decision at this point?
1. We have played in the weakest division in football for 6 years now, and we did compete until the last week of the season in every year until 2024.
2. We did have the most talented roster in the NFC South for at least 4 of the 6 years.
3. The widow was a brand new / first time owner when the biggest decision to roll things over was made. Only now would she logically be expected to consider blowing things up.
4. It's still reasonable for her to trust Loomis (the guy who hired Sean Payton) to be the guy to dismantle and start the rebuild.
I think we're all being a little bit too bleak. Everything that has happened until now has been defensible. Most of us were open to the idea of Dennis Allen as head coach, and the widow did fire him in a reasonable amount of time. Some would have preferred it be last year, but this season wasn't inexcusable. We shouldn't be jumping off the GNO bridge unless and until we make a terrible and uninspired head coaching hire (a Mike McCarthy or Doug Pederson type).
With that said, do we 100% know that Loomis wasn't following orders from the widow to try and have the soft transition while keeping the Saints competitive? Might we want to give her (a new owner likely overwhelmed by the situation she found herself in) the benefit of the doubt in wanting to be competitive and keep the last vestiges of the very good roster that her husband oversaw a chance to succeed? And shouldn't we give her one more chance to make the right coaching decision at this point?
1. We have played in the weakest division in football for 6 years now, and we did compete until the last week of the season in every year until 2024.
2. We did have the most talented roster in the NFC South for at least 4 of the 6 years.
3. The widow was a brand new / first time owner when the biggest decision to roll things over was made. Only now would she logically be expected to consider blowing things up.
4. It's still reasonable for her to trust Loomis (the guy who hired Sean Payton) to be the guy to dismantle and start the rebuild.
I think we're all being a little bit too bleak. Everything that has happened until now has been defensible. Most of us were open to the idea of Dennis Allen as head coach, and the widow did fire him in a reasonable amount of time. Some would have preferred it be last year, but this season wasn't inexcusable. We shouldn't be jumping off the GNO bridge unless and until we make a terrible and uninspired head coaching hire (a Mike McCarthy or Doug Pederson type).
This post was edited on 1/6/25 at 2:06 pm
4
Posted on 1/6/25 at 1:52 pm to SirWinston
quote:
Most of us were open to the idea of Dennis Allen as head coach
Some. Most understood why they went that way, but did not support it.
quote:
the widow did fire him in a reasonable amount of time
The fact that she was being fed bad information by Loomis and had to go around him to truly understand what was going on and how the team felt about DA should be a fireable offense for Loomis
quote:
It's still reasonable for her to trust Loomis (the guy who hired Sean Payton) to be the guy to dismantle and start the rebuild.
I agree with this. He nailed the Payton hire and missed big time with the DA hire. I can see why they may give him one more HC hire (which makes a McCarthy, Nagy, Pederson type most likely). Pederson getting canned this year and being available is kind of hilarious considering he was 1 of the guys a lot of people on this board wanted.
Posted on 1/6/25 at 1:54 pm to SirWinston
The NFL is a qb driven league. Find one and you mask a lot of roster problems. This idea that it takes 5 years to field a competitive team in the nfl is ridiculous. Lots of fans that don’t understand what the nfl has become.
Posted on 1/6/25 at 1:54 pm to SirWinston
When Sean left we should have started the rebuild. Instead we got in cap hell trying to hold on to the past.
Posted on 1/6/25 at 1:59 pm to Weekend Warrior79
quote:
He nailed the Payton hire and missed big time with the DA hire
I still don't think Allen was this epic disaster that everyone else seems to think.
The Saints played their assess off through Week 17 in both 2022 and 2023. We had some rotten luck with field goals (both for and against us) and with Ingram making that boneheaded play in Tampa that cost us the division.
It's good that we've moved on but he didn't really lose the team until this year and he could have just as easily won 2 NFC South titles as have things play out the way they did. We likely would have beaten Philly in the playoffs last year just like Tampa did, because the team was still fighting and playing hard and Philly was reeling. If that had happened, Allen likely survives this season.
I almost don't even view the decision to hire Dennis Allen as a "failure". It was a reasonable decision that didn't work out, but it wasn't as big a mistake as hiring Mike Ditka or trading away those picks for Chris Olave.
This post was edited on 1/6/25 at 2:01 pm
Posted on 1/6/25 at 2:01 pm to NIH
quote:
The NFL is a qb driven league. Find one and you mask a lot of roster problems. This idea that it takes 5 years to field a competitive team in the nfl is ridiculous. Lots of fans that don’t understand what the nfl has become.
If you have a QB, I totally agree the idea of a 5 year rebuild is ridiculous.
But finding a QB to mask a poorly constructed roster is much more difficult than you seem to be insinuating.
Posted on 1/6/25 at 2:01 pm to SirWinston
quote:
Most of us were open to the idea of Dennis Allen as head coach
The frick we were.
Posted on 1/6/25 at 2:02 pm to TeamCKennedy
quote:
When Sean left we should have started the rebuild. Instead we got in cap hell trying to hold on to the past.
Yeah I agree, but I still say that the course we took was defensible if you retrace the steps.
1. We were considerable favorites to win the NFC South the first 2 years Payton was gone. Our roster WAS better on paper than any other team in the NFC South.
2. She likely wanted to keep the roster that Tom Benson had built intact and try to win with it. It's a human instinct and it is totally defensible. She's not a lifelong football fan or nerd like many of us are. To her, winning is "good" and making the playoffs is "great". The idea of dismantling a good roster that her husband built to intentionally make it "bad" is very unlikely to be one that she chose to pursue.
This post was edited on 1/6/25 at 2:04 pm
Posted on 1/6/25 at 2:12 pm to Weekend Warrior79
I don't remember anyone wanting Pederson.
I mean the Saints did interview him and maybe that's when his name got brought up and maybe some people said yeah that would be a good hire but like I don't remember people starting threads over and over again saying we got to get this guy.
I just never was crazy about the head coach and quarterback combination that the Saints went with. I mean you go back and look even in Dennis Allen's first season. The Saints shut the Raiders out right here in the Superdome and I don't even think the Raiders crossed midfield until the second half.
Yet the next season we're paying a pretty good chunk of change to bring in that same quarterback off that Raiders team. And now Carr has put together two straight seasons where he's missed a handful of games due to injury. I don't know. It's just sort of a snowball effect. It feels like several decisions, just hadn't gone the Saints way.
But I don't fault them for not folding the tent when Payton left.
I mean the Saints did interview him and maybe that's when his name got brought up and maybe some people said yeah that would be a good hire but like I don't remember people starting threads over and over again saying we got to get this guy.
I just never was crazy about the head coach and quarterback combination that the Saints went with. I mean you go back and look even in Dennis Allen's first season. The Saints shut the Raiders out right here in the Superdome and I don't even think the Raiders crossed midfield until the second half.
Yet the next season we're paying a pretty good chunk of change to bring in that same quarterback off that Raiders team. And now Carr has put together two straight seasons where he's missed a handful of games due to injury. I don't know. It's just sort of a snowball effect. It feels like several decisions, just hadn't gone the Saints way.
But I don't fault them for not folding the tent when Payton left.
Posted on 1/6/25 at 2:17 pm to NIH
Cool. How do we go about getting one of them there franchise qbs ? Probably not coming from this draft, especially from our slot.
So you run it back with Carr next year and he probably does David Carr things to win you about 6 maybe 7 games so once again probably out of the cream of the crop from that class. Sure sometimes guys slide a bit, you get lucky and he’s a stud…but this FO has failed to even successfully draft a decent back up QB so I don’t really love our odds there.
So yes getting a QB expedites a rebuild but you make it sound like that’s an easy get
So you run it back with Carr next year and he probably does David Carr things to win you about 6 maybe 7 games so once again probably out of the cream of the crop from that class. Sure sometimes guys slide a bit, you get lucky and he’s a stud…but this FO has failed to even successfully draft a decent back up QB so I don’t really love our odds there.
So yes getting a QB expedites a rebuild but you make it sound like that’s an easy get
Posted on 1/6/25 at 2:17 pm to Weekend Warrior79
quote:
Some. Most understood why they went that way, but did not support it.
I can bump the thread, majority on here favored him getting it. I didn’t want him, and there were quite a few that also didn’t like it.
Posted on 1/6/25 at 2:34 pm to Townedrunkard
At the time, Dennis was running an elite D, roster looked strong enough, so put some weapons around JW and try to make one more run. I got the line of thinking but it was clear early on DA wasn’t HC material, the people in the building who knew Dennis better than outsiders definitely should have known.
The rebuild should have began then, bringing in Carr was doubling down on stupid and was clearly a move with the sole goal to win a crappy division and keep their asses safe
The rebuild should have began then, bringing in Carr was doubling down on stupid and was clearly a move with the sole goal to win a crappy division and keep their asses safe
Posted on 1/6/25 at 2:34 pm to BilJ
I’m not saying finding a qb is easy. My point is that you do not need some 5 year + rebuild in the nfl unless you’re consistently whiffing at qb and coach.
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