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Lester Earl
Chicago Cubs Fan
Process over Results
Member since Nov 2003
228121 posts

re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
quote:

Ingram and Kamara work in unison with each other



what does that even mean? They rarely if ever see the field together, and if they do, Kamara is playing WR


bayou85
LSU Fan
Ms
Member since Sep 2016
1003 posts

re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
quote:

At what point are we going to let Ingram walk and feature Kamara?


His last 3 years (including this) have been best of his career. But for how long?

He is 27 so he isn't old.

Average life of a RB is 2.5 years.

How long can he do this? Probably no more than 2 more years.

Sign him to a 2 year deal? long term/less money deal with low bonus?

Tough decisions.


Chad504boy
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Feb 2005
123052 posts

re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
I'll leave this here and any of you can form your own damn conclusions because lord knows it ain't going to get changed.

This is the cumulative 2015 2016 and 2017 seasons put together. 2 backs didn't have 2015 season. This isn't hiding or masking or contorting facts of production in the NFL the past 3 years with their efficiency.


Image: https://i.imgur.com/lpo6Chz.png

This post was edited on 12/6 at 3:07 pm


Brazos
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2013
10481 posts

re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
They feed off each other basically. They complement each other .


Lester Earl
Chicago Cubs Fan
Process over Results
Member since Nov 2003
228121 posts

re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
Cause Kamara can still do what he does with any other above average between the tackle runner.

Kamara on other hand is not easily replaceable


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20
BUGAtGOAT
USA Fan
Metairie
Member since Oct 2015
1089 posts

re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
quote:

We could replace him with a shoe doesn't mean we would be better for it.
CSP loves him. He runs well, blocks well and catches Brees well. He is a all around back that knows this team and how to play in CSP's system. He is a top 5 back in this league.
He should be a Saint as long as we can afford him.



Which is the point of my post. IF IF IF he gets all pro. We won't be able to afford him. We shouldnt pay a running back 10+ per year and thats what he will get.

I'd rather chance it on a running back in the 2nd or 3rd round.

I've been saying since training camp that Kamara will eventually be our Leveon Bell. He will be a 3 down back with his ability to run between the tackles.


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Kennerkarl
LSU Fan
Kenner
Member since Jan 2014
230 posts

re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
Already made list of names which somebody asked for. Asking if I need to break it down further year by year is "moving goal posts"?

Thanks for the valuable input into the discussion boss


Noplacelikehome
USA Fan
Member since Oct 2010
2150 posts

re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
quote:

Because Ingram has had the better overall year.



Go ahead and explain...

Bc I'm thinking the guy with more total scrimmage yards, more TDs, and the higher Yards per touch should be higher.

Not saying not to keep Ingram. I am just making a point about the All-Pro topic.


htran90
New Orleans Saints Fan
BC
Member since Dec 2012
21317 posts

re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
quote:

Zeke Elliot, Gurley, Jordan Howard > Ingram



Last 2 per the guy that only wanted to use 2015 and 2016, Elliott and Howard were top 5 IMHO going into this season.

Gurley had an abysmal 2016 season, watched a few games and you noticed his vision was severely lacking.


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LisbethSalander
New Orleans Saints Fan
NOLA
Member since Feb 2016
150 posts

re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
This info isn't complete either, receiving yards are important, and not as an argument for or against Ingram. Also Melvin Gordon has been in the league for 3 years, he should have a 3rd year in there, 2015 he had 641 rush yards.

I think it's fair to say we have made the point clear that over 3 years including this one we have had a top 10 RB at the very worst. That can't be debated. I would argue that could be said for the past 4 years as well.

He has also certainly out performed the price we have paid him on this current contract. The fact he can do everything you want an RB to do, from rushing, catching, blocking, and yes ball protection too, he does it all at a very high level. Combine that with how he has embraced Kamara in an unprecedented way, despite him overshadowing him in some ways, says a lot about the locker room guy he is. It says much more than what MI22 haters love to point to with his rare outbursts on the sideline.

That being said, and let me be clear I am a huge Mark Ingram fan, I would be concerned if the Saints paid him 7 mil/year for 4 more years. I think the next 2 would be productive years, barring injury, but once you have a 30+ year old RB, the decline in production will be clear, and we will be overpaying a rapidly depreciating asset. It's tough because he has earned at least that 7mil/season recently, but you can't pay guys for what they did, only what you expect they will do.

It's going to be close to all-pro this season, if he plays well down the stretch, gets 1200 Rush yards, 350-400 receiving yards and 12 TDs, 5+ YPC, that's gonna be tough to deny regardless of the offensive rookie of the year playing next to him. They should both be Pro Bowl selections.

I believe it's likely we resign Ingram regardless. If we give him more guaranteed money in the offseason he may not demand 8 mil/year, though he has the right to do that based on his play. I think pay him 5-6mil/season over 3 years, guarantee most of it, he signs it. Not gambling on staying healthy in your contract year for a RB who's 28 is probably worth a couple mil, especially when you can break all the Saints RB records in the book.


LNCHBOX
LSU Fan
70001
Member since Jun 2009
45673 posts

re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
quote:

Already made list of names which somebody asked for. Asking if I need to break it down further year by year is "moving goal posts"?

Thanks for the valuable input into the discussion boss



You were asked for backs over a time frame, you moved the goal posts to weasel out of giving the answer that Ingram is a top 5 back.

Just accept that Ingram has been good for the last 2 seasons plus all of this one, and you'll be a better fan.


Chad504boy
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Feb 2005
123052 posts

re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
quote:

This info isn't complete either, receiving yards are important,


be my guest to go add those numbers up for whatever they are worth. Ingram is at worst one of the top 10 dual threat backs in the league but definitely a top 5 rusher the past 5 years especially when you lean to efficiency.

Good catch on Gordon. Updated sheet. *shit, forgot to drop the 2 yrs only down to howard* i aint' redoing lol

Image: https://i.imgur.com/lpo6Chz.png
This post was edited on 12/6 at 3:08 pm


tzimme4
Chicago Cubs Fan
Metairie
Member since Jan 2008
18726 posts

re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
That's it let's decide who's all-pro in Week 13. Smart


htran90
New Orleans Saints Fan
BC
Member since Dec 2012
21317 posts

re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
quote:

That being said, and let me be clear I am a huge Mark Ingram fan, I would be concerned if the Saints paid him 7 mil/year for 4 more years. I think the next 2 would be productive years, barring injury, but once you have a 30+ year old RB, the decline in production will be clear, and we will be overpaying a rapidly depreciating asset. It's tough because he has earned at least that 7mil/season recently, but you can't pay guys for what they did, only what you expect they will do.



while I agree with the 30+yo RB, wear and tear matters too and he's going to be going into next season as a 7th yr veteran, 28yo "bell cow" that has only carried it a projected 1200 times and 205 catches. That's pretty fresh considering Le'Veon Bell is going to be a 5th yr veteran, 26yo bell cow that has 1300 times and 310 catches.


LisbethSalander
New Orleans Saints Fan
NOLA
Member since Feb 2016
150 posts

re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
quote:

while I agree with the 30+yo RB, wear and tear matters too and he's going to be going into next season as a 7th yr veteran, 28yo "bell cow" that has only carried it a projected 1200 times and 205 catches. That's pretty fresh considering Le'Veon Bell is going to be a 5th yr veteran, 26yo bell cow that has 1300 times and 310 catches.


I don't disagree, he is relatively underutilized RB, but the fact he has been hurt often doesn't bode well for the wear and tear factor. I'm not going to picket the front office if we overpay Mark, especially if he actually gets All Pro this year, but I suspect that would be dead money by year 4 of that deal, or overpaying him at best. We have to think about what we will hopefully have to pay a stud contract for prime years in Alvin Kamara toward the end of this hypothetical extension.


LosLobos111
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Transcendant
Member since Feb 2011
33859 posts

re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
I don't think we'll be competing by the time he's 30+ anyway tbh so it might not matter


Lester Earl
Chicago Cubs Fan
Process over Results
Member since Nov 2003
228121 posts

re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
quote:

while I agree with the 30+yo RB, wear and tear matters too and he's going to be going into next season as a 7th yr veteran, 28yo "bell cow" that has only carried it a projected 1200 times and 205 catches. That's pretty fresh considering Le'Veon Bell is going to be a 5th yr veteran, 26yo bell cow that has 1300 times and 310 catches.




considering he has missed 20 games over his career and was rendered ineffective in several more because of injury, let's not pretend like this matters. Signing a RB to a high dollar 3rd contract is just dumb.


Lester Earl
Chicago Cubs Fan
Process over Results
Member since Nov 2003
228121 posts

re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
chad would you take david johnson, zeke elliot or jordan howard over ingram?


htran90
New Orleans Saints Fan
BC
Member since Dec 2012
21317 posts

re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
quote:

considering he has missed 20 games over his career and was rendered ineffective in several more because of injury, let's not pretend like this matters. Signing a RB to a high dollar 3rd contract is just dumb.



18 games, 11 which came in the first 3 years. Since then, 7 over the last 4 and non since last season.

Giving him a "3rd" contract isn't completely ridiculous if its something for 3-4 years, 2 of which will be prime years as he hasn't shown any signs of slowing down. The biggest thing is, you're keeping things constant offensively for Brees.

I mean you go from paying him 4mil->7/8mil. I can make up that 4mil easily from worse players that contribute less.

Cutting Hill saves 2mil
Cutting Fleener saves 3.2mil
Cutting Strief saves 4.0mil
Cutting Stupar saves 1.725mil

Lets say you let him walk, your option is to bring in another 3-down back via FA or draft. You also have to spend a pick in the draft for that RB, we're already down a 2nd rounder via Kamara


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Chad504boy
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Feb 2005
123052 posts

re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
Not Jordan Howard for sure


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