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Kennerkarl
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Kenner
Member since Jan 2014
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re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
I have said from the get go that Ingram is a top 5 back this year but he was not the previous two years prior to this season.

That his been my exact argument to the original statement by Chad504 that he has been a top 5 back "the past 2 or 3 years".

If you disagree, cool. Let me know why.


I accept he has been good. Read the entire thread next time. Ill try to be a better fan.


Chad504boy
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re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
There's no back that's been better past 2 or 3 years per his production


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richbad
LSU Fan
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Member since Nov 2008
331 posts

re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
Let him fly they got enough good running backs coming in the draft


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25 Point Lead
Member since Nov 2017
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re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
quote:

I have said from the get go that Ingram is a top 5 back this year but he was not the previous two years prior to this season.


So you moved the goal posts....

quote:

That his been my exact argument to the original statement by Chad504 that he has been a top 5 back "the past 2 or 3 years". 

If you disagree, cool. Let me know why. 


Because you're looking at individual seasons instead of comprehending that he's talking about 2015-2017 as a whole, not individual seasons. You claimed it false, then proceeded to try and change the argument.

It really isn't hard


Kennerkarl
LSU Fan
Kenner
Member since Jan 2014
179 posts

re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
He hasn't been a top 5 back for the past 2-3 years . the original statement. At no point in time prior to this year would anyone outside of a saints fan forum have considered him a top 5 back. He's a top 5 back this year.

Is that moving the goal posts ? I understand if you don't agree with my opinion, but I didn't change my arguement

Agree to disagree with each other's opinions on Ingram; I have no problem with that.
Hope he's able to play tomorrow and continues run like a beast.





This post was edited on 12/6 at 7:47 pm


25 Point Lead
Member since Nov 2017
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re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
quote:

Agree to disagree with each other's opinions on Ingram; I have no problem with that.




quote:

At no point in time prior to this year would anyone outside of a saints fan forum have considered him a top 5 back. He's a top 5 back this year. 


Unfortunately for your argument, which you seem to keep ignoring and intentionally leaving out in your previous posts, you have to take this season into account....

You listed David Johnson...has he been a top 5 back in 2 of the past 3 years? Was it the 583 yard year or the 23 yard year? Why didn't you apply the same criteria to him?

Oh wait, you moved the goal post to fit him in:

quote:

I already gave my opinion on who was better 2015-2016


List 5 better from 2015-2017. Actually answer the question to the debate you're having if you want to actually have a discussion.
This post was edited on 12/6 at 7:58 pm


CocoLoco
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re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
He’s not a top 5 back, but he’s top 10. I’d like to keep him around. This RB duo is special. Kamara is just starting his career while have very little tread on the tires thanks to Butch Jones. Ingram also doesn’t have a lot of tread. He can produce at a high level another 3+ seasons.


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Kennerkarl
LSU Fan
Kenner
Member since Jan 2014
179 posts

re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
heres the best way I can try to explain my point. Let's say Jarvis Landry explodes next year for 1700 yards and 15 tds.
Is he retroactively right now a top 5 wr this year? Not in my opinion

He was consistently good and his stats in 2018 put him into the elite conversation. Why make the claim that he has been top 5 wr for 2 years when he has only been a top 5 wr for 1 year?

Weird hypothetical but maybe that will help explain to you what I am getting at.


25 Point Lead
Member since Nov 2017
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re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
So you can't actually name 5 better from 2015-2017?

Got it

quote:

Is he retroactively right now a top 5 wr this year? Not in my opinion 


But David Johnson was on your list...

quote:

Weird hypothetical but maybe that will help explain to you what I am getting at.


You're not making some profound argument. Everyone gets it, it's not the original debate though.

Name 5 better from 2015-today, which is what the original debate was.

How can this be any clearer? You had to intentionally ignore that again in response to my last post
This post was edited on 12/6 at 8:19 pm


moock blackjack
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Member since Apr 2008
23213 posts

re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
I don't know for sure but if he does have one more year on his contract, why ciscuss


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Kennerkarl
LSU Fan
Kenner
Member since Jan 2014
179 posts

re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
I named 5
bell, gurley, mccoy, freeman, d Johnson.

You disagree with David Johnson. Calm down .

Looks like there are clearly different ways to interpret
" like he's been past 2-3 years" in the OP.
When I read that my first thought is that he was certainly not a top 5 back a couple years ago.
If you combine stats over that time there's a case to be made because of how well he has played this year.

Not intentionally leaving anything out of my argument or moving goal posts




htran90
New Orleans Saints Fan
BC
Member since Dec 2012
18120 posts

re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
quote:

Looks like there are clearly different ways to interpret
" like he's been past 2-3 years" in the OP.
When I read that my first thought is that he was certainly not a top 5 back a couple years ago.
If you combine stats over that time there's a case to be made because of how well he has played this year.



Ignoring rookies from 2016 because it seems the 2015 and 2016 seasons are what people are basing off of those are your top 5.

Personally, I can't realistically say Gurley was better. He was very lacluster last year and the biggest issue I had with watching him was his seeming lack of vision last year as opposed to his rookie year.

Yardage, they're both very similar but efficiency its Ingram's.

The other 4 like I said I'd agree with.


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25 Point Lead
Member since Nov 2017
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re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
quote:

You disagree with David Johnson.


quote:

Why make the claim that he has been top 5 rb for 2 years when he has only been a top 5 rb for 1 year? 


Make your argument for him.

I've yet to give an opinion on Ingram's rank. You're just not applying your logic up your own opinion
This post was edited on 12/6 at 9:18 pm


Scoob
LSU Fan
Near Exxon
Member since Jun 2009
7868 posts

re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
quote:

I don't think we'll be competing by the time he's 30+ anyway tbh so it might not matter
Going to put this out there for your consideration:

John Elway, 1st ballot HOF QB, brilliant passing efforts early in his career.
Won 2 Superbowls, both at the end of his career, when he was the 'crafty veteran QB/coach on the field', with a power running offense and a strong defense.

Drew Brees, certain 1st ballot HOF QB, brilliant numbers every season. 1 Superbowl a few years ago, on coincidentally the best running team he's been on here.
Ingram and Kamara, with the O-line we have now, are becoming the best 1-2 tandem in the league. Thunder and Lightning has been taken, but it fits them perfectly. Our defense has improved exponentially, with possibly the best corner and DE in the league.
Brees knows this offense well enough to line up no-huddle and run probably the entire playbook, not just a few audibles. He knows how to put Ingram and Kamara into good situations, and he's still good enough to beat you if they get stuffed (assuming anyone can stuff them).

I see at least 3 yrs of Brees still being a viable Superbowl QB, if the running game remains beast and the defense doesn't collapse. We need to make this team so that he doesn't have to throw for 5000 yds. It's currently what it should be. If Ingram wants market value and he isn't declining (and I think he's actually getting better), pay him. We can save money when Brees and the gang retire, and we drop back into the pack. But right now, we have the formula for a strong couple of seasons, and we should maximize that.


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Kennerkarl
LSU Fan
Kenner
Member since Jan 2014
179 posts

re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
The case for David Johnson based on production
33 games
3200 yards
32 tds
1st team all pro.

What do you mean by not applying my logic to my argument?
Honest question, not denying it


25 Point Lead
Member since Nov 2017
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re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
He's only had 1 elite season



Kennerkarl
LSU Fan
Kenner
Member since Jan 2014
179 posts

re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
Good counter-point
How many "elite" seasons has Ingram had?
0.75?


I guess that would be not applying your own logic to your argument?



LNCHBOX
LSU Fan
70001
Member since Jun 2009
43452 posts
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re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
quote:

He hasn't been a top 5 back for the past 2-3 years


The numbers disagree with you. You choose only total yards to hang your hat on, because it's the only way you can make your case. You're a hack, and frankly ans especially stupid one at that,



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Chad504boy
USA Fan
Member since Feb 2005
119353 posts
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re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
quote:

He's only had 1 elite season


dictated by volume of touches.


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25 Point Lead
Member since Nov 2017
574 posts
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re: Let's Discuss if Mark Ingram hits free agency this year
quote:

Good counter-point
How many "elite" seasons has Ingram had?
0.75?


I guess that would be not applying your own logic to your argument?


What argument have I made? That's literally been my argument....

There you go moving the posts again


But since you're the one who argued for production, Ingram is averaging ~5 ypc in the 2015-2017 window. Is there any qualifying back (a back with significant carries) that beats that in the 3 year window?

I wouldn't argue that Ingram was a top 5 back in 2015 or 2016. I'd argue he's top 3 this season. However, unlike most backs, he's been widely available and consistently good in that same window. That alone, along with this season, puts him up there.

You disqualified Ingram based on that single season criteria, yet hyped of Johnson who has been less consistent (due to injury). That's hypocritical

This post was edited on 12/7 at 10:29 am


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